'A better off Britain'

CLAPTON

wotsthat wrote: »

In large parts of the world people are giving birth to children which they know will spend a life in grinding poverty.

They aren't making lifestyle choices - you're simply seeing a mixture of biology and hope.

well, I didn't realise there was poverty in the world


however, is that relevant to the point being commented on

Generali wrote:

Only in Britain are children considered a lifestyle choice.

wotsthat

CLAPTON wrote: »

well, I didn't realise there was poverty in the world

however, is that relevant to the point being commented on

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Of course it's relevant. People want children it's built in - even us superior Brits haven't put these base instincts behind us.

Don't see the big deal about providing free child care personally - other rich countries manage it.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

In large parts of the world people are giving birth to children which they know will spend a life in grinding poverty.

And the discussion was around this country I assume, as no one on here lives in poverty in say Africa.

We have access to free contraception, free advice and support and even free help with conception.

This is hardly comparable to someone living in a tent in Africa etc with no access to education or contraception, and often no protection either. Sometimes raped with no help from outsiders.

In this country, and most of the western world, having children is a CHOICE (baring abuse etc which I'm just adding before the discussion ends up there).

It's frankly absurd to pretend it's anything but a choice we make. If it's a "mistake" or surprise, we made the choice in the first place to take the chance. And even then, we have the ability to choose what to do at that point.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Apart from money - what's the difference?

If I earn £100k then the costs of child care aren't much of a barrier to the little woman wanting to go back to work. If we're both on the dole and have a couple of small children then the barriers to work are huge.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

If I earn £100k then the costs of child care aren't much of a barrier to the little woman wanting to go back to work. If we're both on the dole and have a couple of small children then the barriers to work are huge.

No they are not.

The person on 100k pays for the childcare.

The person on the dole, if they find work, will get 70% of their childcare paid for. Infact I think now, at 3 years of age, they get free childcare?

It's still a lot of money to pay out for both sets of people, I'm not disregarding that. Hence my proposed solution discussion point on page 1, which I can only assume you'd agree with based on your previous posts and now this one?

But the OP of the point seemed to be suggesting there was some social difference, and I was keen to find out his thoughts on it.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

And the discussion was around this country I assume, as no one on here lives in poverty in say Africa.

We have access to free contraception, free advice and support and even free help with conception.

This is hardly comparable to someone living in a tent in Africa etc with no access to education or contraception, and often no protection either. Sometimes raped with no help from outsiders.

In this country, and most of the western world, having children is a CHOICE (baring abuse etc which I'm just adding before the discussion ends up there).

It's frankly absurd to pretend it's anything but a choice we make. If it's a "mistake" or surprise, we made the choice in the first place to take the chance. And even then, we have the ability to choose what to do at that point.

Everything is about choice.

Sometimes people make choices of which we disapprove. What then?

We could deny them access to child care so work makes little sense and import labour instead.

Graham_Devon

wotsthat wrote: »

Everything is about choice.

Indeed.

But you appeared to be backing up Generali's stance that having children isn't a choice above.

Confused.com

jjlandlord

ukcarper wrote: »

What does "I can't afford childcare so I will stop working have no income and become eligible for plenty of benefits" mean. I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

At lower wages it may simply not make sense to work if the whole salary has to go into paying for childcare.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Apart from money - what's the difference?

Please, are you being serious?

Graham_Devon wrote: »

But the OP of the point seemed to be suggesting there was some social difference.

Because there usually is.
At the end of the day, being on the dole, or being on 100k pa is not down to luck.

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Indeed.

But you appeared to be backing up Generali's stance that having children isn't a choice above.

Confused.com

Have an internet point. :T

So when people make choices that you don't approve of what happens?

Graham_Devon

jjlandlord wrote: »

Please, are you being serious?

Yes - being serious.