'A better off Britain'

Generali

Bantex wrote: »

If these people are so valuable to an employer, why are they not paying for the childcare for them?

We seem to have a rather odd system already where large parts of the workforce (so therefore the employers) are being subsidised rather than being paid a going rate.

I'm not sure whether you have children or not but it is amazing just how expensive child care is. A lack of access to affordable child care is probably the single biggest problem facing women in the workplace. Employers can no more afford to subsidise childcare than workers can afford it. There seems no better way to increase discrimination against women in the workplace than by putting a massive tax on employing female workers!

N1AK

CLAPTON wrote: »

to suggest that the availability of labour is 'off topic' when discussing productivity shows a very sad.

He didn't say it was off topic, rather that it was the only topic that you drone on about incessantly. It is possible for most people to occasionally discuss other areas of the economy, even if you can't remove the blinkers for long enough to manage it.

Generali

CLAPTON wrote: »

even you know this is economic nonsense :


and you didn't actually answer the questions about what would cause a business to invest in higher productivity.


to suggest that the availability of labour is 'off topic' when discussing productivity shows a very sad.

Not every thread needs to be about immigration. There is no mention of immigration in the CBI study that I can find.

Which part of my point is economic nonsense? If you're trying to suggest that society as a whole takes responsibility for enabling productive workers to work is economic nonsense then I think you're letting your dislike for my politics blinker your comments.

Generali

N1AK wrote: »

He didn't say it was off topic, rather that it was the only topic that you drone on about incessantly. It is possible for most people to occasionally discuss other areas of the economy, even if you can't remove the blinkers for long enough to manage it.

It's not just me right? This bantex/CLAPTON double act/sockies are both obsessed....?

Graham_Devon

What would be better all round is something like many places in Europe offers. Creches on the site of the business for kids. Obviously this would only work for larger business. However, I can't see any reason that cannot be resolved that would stop every supermarket in the country having a creche type area.

Offer that alongside a flexible approach in order that mothers / fathers can go and see their kid every, say, couple of hours and spend 10 minutes with them. This flexibility would have to work both ways of course, with, say, half an hours pay deducted.

I don't believe it's in the kids, and therefore, socities interests long term to throw very young children into nursery 5 days a week in order that we "compete" even further with the rest of the world.

The "values" of life appears to be being eroded in the need for more of everything. I'm not sure we really need more of everything continuously. Theres a thin line between the trade off of more people working longer and society itself becoming a darker place.

Cyberman60

CLAPTON wrote: »

seems a strange incoherent set of words and paragraphs


I'm unclear how productivity will improve if we provide better child care for 1 and 2 years old.


Whilst most of us believe in investing in productivity to whom is this doctrine being aimed?
Of course many believe our salvation is to import cheaper labour from Europe rather than use our existing labour force more productively.

Getting more women to stay at home rather than juggling their lives around between work and children would raise productivity as they would then be focusing on one main aim.
Stopping people with part-time jobs claiming WTC would free up billions to help clear the massive deficit and encourage them to work more hours rather than spongeing off of the taxpayer, thus also increasing productivity.

Getting rid of sick pay and thus deducting money from people skiving off work would focus their minds on getting to work, especially in the public sector.

N1AK

Generali wrote: »

I'm not sure whether you have children or not but it is amazing just how expensive child care is.

Lots of things are expensive, including housing for example but the CBI considers housing benefit as a temporary band aid which should be resolved by paying people enough that they don't need government intervention.

Generali wrote: »

There seems no better way to increase discrimination against women in the workplace than by putting a massive tax on employing female workers!

Paying them less, promoting them less often, primarily rating employees based on more masculine traits and many other things would come higher in my list. Childcare isn't a tax and it isn't on women, any more than a mortgage is a tax and income tax is a tax on men because they typically earn more.

A large proportion of my school and university friends have had children in recent years. Without exception it is the parent who earned least who stopped working, or took an extended period off before returning to work, or returned to work part time. I think the bigger issue is why amongst a group of 11 degree educated women in their late 20's including three with PhDs, easily on a level with their partners, was only one woman the higher earner.

I'm not strongly opposed to subsidised childcare, as much as the above may look otherwise, but I think ultimately it's a failed measure where the money could be used better.

Steve_Perry_2

Cyberman60 wrote: »

Getting more women to stay at home rather than juggling their lives around between work and children would raise productivity as they would then be focusing on one main aim.
Stopping people with part-time jobs claiming WTC would free up billions to help clear the massive deficit and encourage them to work more hours rather than spongeing off of the taxpayer, thus also increasing productivity.

Getting rid of sick pay and thus deducting money from people skiving off work would focus their minds on getting to work, especially in the public sector.

Sorry, have we just gone back half a century ?

I really have no idea where to start with this but one question ,as a bastion of industry and productivity ,can you say with your hand on your heart you have never taken a day off sick ?

Bantex_2

Generali wrote: »

I'm not sure whether you have children or not but it is amazing just how expensive child care is. A lack of access to affordable child care is probably the single biggest problem facing women in the workplace. Employers can no more afford to subsidise childcare than workers can afford it. There seems no better way to increase discrimination against women in the workplace than by putting a massive tax on employing female workers!

That does sort of assume that having two working parents is the best thing. I do not have much of a view either way but think a system where everybody paid their way would be preferable. I have had children and never got anything beyond a few quid child allowance.

N1AK

Graham_Devon wrote: »

However, I can't see any reason that cannot be resolved that would stop every supermarket in the country having a creche type area.

There isn't, the rub being that it costs money and where is that going to come from? Lots of people, myself included, don't think it is the governments job to subsidise what is ultimately a lifestyle choice; A party that puts spending more money on childcare in its manifesto may lose some support for it. If parents were willing, and able, to pay themselves then we'd already be seeing this kind of thing happening far more often.

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Offer that alongside a flexible approach in order that mothers / fathers can go and see their kid every, say, couple of hours and spend 10 minutes with them. This flexibility would have to work both ways of course, with, say, half an hours pay deducted.

We're getting there slowly. Workplaces are, on average, getting a little savvier at judging employees by results rather than presence, which is the main issue facing parents trying to judge family and career in my opinion.