Help - Newbie - CPlus Parking Fine

sbk1972uk

Hi there,

Firstly, many thanks for an excellent site. Ok so I will admit that Ive read the sticky topic but it all seems so complicated.

My problem is that I have charge notice for £50/100 for over staying in a carpark for Costa etc on the M23. My wife was driving, had our kids, and met a friend who's child is disabled so feeding all these kids took time.

Anyway, so I have the notice in my hand, what do I do ? Ive read that I should write back and say challenge the charge and only offer a reasonable amount, so £4 or so. I cant afford £50 or £100 and dont need any debt collectors knocking on my door.

The company is called CPplus, it's letter states its BPA memeber.

Can I just ignore this and all the future pending letters, threats and court demands ?

I did try to read the sticky thread at the top, but there was so many links and information that Im just confused.

Thanks

SBK

tykesi

You've not read the sticky topic in enough detail if you think you should write back and offer a nominal charge.

Might I suggest you go back and read it again or search the forum for threads on CPPlus which will give you an idea of what others have done to beat them.

You will need to do some work on this though. It's your ticket and whether you find it confusing or not your responsibility to get rid of it. By all means ask questions but not those which have answers in the stickies.

gertysingh

sbk - grab a cup of hot chocolate and relax. Now that you've got an overview of the Newbies stickie, read it again and take notes about what is pertinent to your situation. For now you should see that it is posts 1 and 2.

Also write to the Motorway Services and strongly suggest they get their dogs off your back as the driver was a customer of the services + send them copies of your receipts.

Georginio

It can seem a little complicated when you first look, but you just need to dedicate a good hour or so to reading and jotting and it will make sense.


Commit a bit of time, and do the reading and you will be able to make this go away without any charge.

sbk1972uk

Ok, so Ive taken a look. I need to write back using the template later -

Bloggs PPC
Anystreet
Anytown


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on the following grounds:

a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified.
b). As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen, the wording is ambiguous and the predominant purpose of your business model is intended to be a deterrent.
c). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and also breaches the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Payments) Regs 2013.
e). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.

The purpose of this communication is threefold:

1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn in the absence of evidence. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or prove beyond any doubt who was driving - or cancel the charge. I strongly urge you to uphold this challenge now or alternatively, send a rejection letter - subject to accepting my claim for costs as clearly stated below, since you have no case. I will then escalate this appeal to the independent appeal service offered by your Trade Body.

2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law, reading your Notice and responding, despite a lack of contract. I calculate both my costs and yours to be under £15 at this early stage, therefore, this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my expenses.

3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged contract which was never properly offered or explained by you. The charge is not acknowledged, is not due and no 'service contract' from you was ever expressly requested by the driver or by me. Neither the driver nor myself gave 'prior express consent' or any consent at all for any contract to exist and it is not for me to pay an extravagant sum just because you chose to foist unexpected and non-negotiated onerous terms upon any driver of my vehicle. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - your IAS or POPLA, then the contract still ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies.

As well as not meeting the requirements of the POFA 2012, you have clearly breached the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Payments) Regs 2013. Even if your contract is found not to be a 'distance contract' (which I say it is), it is a fact that providing the use of a parking bay is a contract which must follow the provisions of these new Regulations. You have failed to provide the required information for consumer contracts in a 'durable medium' in advance and you have failed to obtain 'express agreement' from the driver; a form of specific consent which cannot flow from a sign.

By replying to the challenge, you will also be acknowledging receipt, understanding and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you do not now cancel, then I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs which are likely to exceed £100 if you ignore the fact I have cancelled the contract, should you now proceed to independent appeal and/or small claims court.

Only reply with a rejection letter if you understand and accept your future liability, since I have already openly indicated the main points of appeal and have pointed out that your contract breaches current UK Regulations which were introduced in 2014 to protect consumers in a consistent manner. I have also cancelled any contract that you may think exists. If you choose to refuse my drop hands offer, you accept liability for my expenses and time wasted on repeating my points at further appeal stage and in court if necessary.

Where sent by post I have obtained proof of posting. Where submitted online/by email I have kept a copy and this communication is clearly received by you unless proved otherwise. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days and urge you to accept the drop hands offer and accept that I have cancelled any 'contract' because this resolves the dispute without cost.

Yours faithfully,




Do I keep the format of the letter ? I just add the PCN numeber, my name and send it off ?

I did a search and it seems that CPplus then sends back some POLPA number or something ?? to be honest, I dont mind just paying a £5 and getting rid of this.

Can I just reply and say I dont agree the value, here's a cheque for a £5 ?

SBK

ezerscrooge

Yes - keep the format and add in your details.

They will not accept £5 - they want the full lot and will chance their arm to get it. Fight them and you will win.

They will most likely refuse your appeal, so you'll go to POPLA with an edited version of this...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/65410407#Comment_65410407

If your friend stayed for over 2 hours they may well get a charge as well. Your friend can then use the template and add in a section about the Equality Act.

And do complain to the MSA operator know about the predatory practices of their agent.

gertysingh

Finally just to add a VAT (Value Added Text) on top. This is their mission statement: http://www.cp-plus.co.uk/about-us/our-car-park-management-mission/

Think you should find lots in there to play to add a final word

Half_way

Dopnt forget to get in touch with the service station as well, and tell them that unless they call off thier agents you will be billing the service area for the time you are wasting on this scam

sbk1972uk

Hi all, many thanks for all your help. Im just writing up the email / doc now.

Just to confirm, I first write to them with the point I cut / pasted into my earlier email. From reading about they will no doubt reply refusing my apeal so I go to pola ? Is POPLA some sort of organisation ?? Ive just noticed that my format / points made in my email look the same that others use in the POPLA template ?

Just a little confused ??!

Im going to email my appeal into CPN plus.

Again, many thanks for your excellent help.

SBK

gertysingh

Your first appeal is to the PPC. The PPC will issue you with a Popla code when they reject your appeal. You get a second go at Popla. Both appeals look similar but are not the exact same.

gertysingh

p.s. My preference is snail mail with a free certificate of delivery as it is accepted by courts as having been delivered. Unfortunately technology can be denied in court as not being received by the other side. With post, the other side has to prove they did not receive the post!!