URGENT ADVICE NEEDED PLEASE Benefit Fraud? ESA

janey22

Feral_Moon wrote: »

Is there any reason you stopped claiming HB and CTB? What have you been using to pay your rent and council tax if all this money has been re-directed to a second account?

I was in a joint tenancy and my rent was quite low. I hardly ever go out and don't spend much money at all. All my furniture is from Freecycle or the tip, and I don't spend much money on food. I was uncomfortable financially (as I didn't, and still haven't accessed this money in the second account) but I just about got by.

janey22

nannytone wrote: »

as per the above quote ....
if you receive support group ESA, high rate care DLA and low rate mobility DLA your total 4 weekly income would be around £1,200 ( so £300 a week)
you say you claim not housing or council tax benefit.
how are you managing to pay 2 lots of rent plus council tax and have ANYTHING left at all?
presuming this second account held the minimum that still entitled you to benefit, this is still a staggering 11k amassed in 2 years. ( you say you stopped claiming HB and CTB in 2012)
you also allude to an 'error in finances' at the start of your claim.
what was this error.
finally, are you on income based ESA or conts based?

Hello, I've just responded to the first quote about how I managed to pay my rent and get by. Sorry for the confusion, but I was only paying one lot of rent (my share in a joint tenancy) and the error in my finances was not at the start of my claim (again, sorry for the confusion). When I started my claim I gave all the required, honest and accurate information to the benefits dept about my accounts. I was actually in debt. The error occurred partway through my claim, when I moved and realised I hadn't stopped a standing order from one account to another (which accrued). Thank you

janey22

GirlFromMars wrote: »

Were you working prior to claiming ESA?

Do you know if you have an entitlement to Contributions Based ESA?

As you are in the support group, if you have a Conts ESA entitlement you would still be entitled to Conts-ESA, even after your income rose above the thresholds.

Are you receiving the Enhanced Disability Premium or the Severe Disability Premium? These are income related, and would definitely be affected by your savings.

I would definitely write to the DWP and get this sorted out. You have all the money in an account waiting to be paid back if necessary. And you have evidence that you haven't been using this account which strongly suggests you really didn't realise about it.

Get back in touch with the CAB and let them help you.

Yes I was working in multiple part-time jobs prior to claiming ESA, but then got signed off sick and claimed after my SSP ran out and was unable to get signed back on to work because I was very unwell.
Despite some confusion when looking at my paperwork, (where it mentions "contributions") I have found out that it is income-related ESA.
I was also told by the CAB that I should have been in receipt of the Severe Disability Premium for the last 3 years or so; however I don't see that this "underpayment" is relevant now, as my overpayment is far worse (and perhaps I should not have been entitled to any ESA at all since my savings went up - so I wouldn't consider the lack of the disability premium relevant).
Thank you for your advice. In an ideal world I would like to not have to access this account and deplete funds that I can pay my 6 months rent in advance, because yes, then I can just say "take this money back now please!" however I'm being evicted and have no choice but to take a vast amount out to secure myself a home. I just hope that the DWP will not accuse me of purposely depleting the funds because I don't want to have to touch them - only for the purpose of paying the DWP back easily and quickly. Unfortunately I will not have enough money in the account after I've paid my rent in advance (plus fees and moving costs) to pay them back straight away :-( I will also be well under the £16,000 theshold. I wonder what my position would be with regards to ESA and HB if I go to them now, they say I have not been entitled to ESA for x amount of time due to my savings, but then after I move I have under the threshold again (and owe them money). I am on high rate DLA and a return to work is not likely in the near future.

janey22

Housing_Benefit_Officer wrote: »

Every day you keep quit and say nothing is a days more overpayment that accrues. The hidden account will be picked up during a data matching exercise. It might me next week or next month or next year but sometime in the future it will be discovered.

That's what I say when people tell me to not go forward, saying they only ever go after people who are committing huge frauds and they'll never check me as they haven't yet.
I feel that as I've never been reviewed (unfortunately for me, because if I had been, this problem would not have happened if I was aware at an earlier stage) then I must be due one at some point soon.

janey22

LostAndAshamed wrote: »

I'd hand myself in if I was you. I have some mental health issues too, and it'd eat me up waiting to be found out.

They'll pause your ESA while they investigate, but your DLA should be unaffected. They will reassess you based on having £17,000 in savings, and work out how much you have been overpaid by. You may have an interview with them, but as you admitted this yourself, they will treat you much better than if they "catch" you.

Nobody can say if they will prosecute, or whether there will be a financial settlement. It is worth noting that you'll be able to pay back the overpayment quickly, though, so that will go in your favour.

If you spend the money, and the DWP find out, you'll be in more trouble. For a start, they'll treat you harshly because you didn't come clean. I also believe that they are allowed to treat you as if you still have the money if you spend it on unessential purchases - it isn't lawful to spend money to remain entitled to benefits. Some costs are allowable, but there is no definitive list. In that situation, you'd have spent the money but would be treated as if you still had it, so you'd not have income from anywhere.

If it was me, I'd speak to CAB today and get them to help you draft the letter. It should be short, and to the point. Don't ramble. Send any statements you have. Explain how the money built up without you noticing. Then ask CAB to contact your support workers, explain why this had to be done, and ensure that you are well supported through the process.

The alternative for me would be a lot of sleepless nights and worrying, and they could review at any time, so it'd just be waiting until they spotted it.

Thank you for your thoughts. Do you think the DWP would see spending 6 months rent in advance (plus fees and moving costs) as essential, or do you think it would get me into more trouble? (assuming I go forward now)
I don't know anyone who can act as a guarantor and I am being evicted.

janey22

Ruby_woo wrote: »

Didn't want to read and run but only time for a quick reply.

Firstly, it's pretty clear to me that you have NOT done anything wrong on purpose, as if you were trying to do this on purpose then you would have kept the savings under 16,000 and only had a small amount of your benefit deducted each week. Am I right in saying this please? I'm sure lots of people on here can clarify this?

Secondly, it sounds like this is eating you up. The constant worrying etc. I understand that.

Thirdly, you are going to need somewhere to live so IMO you have to use your savings to get set up. This will have to happen as you can't live on the streets.

If you tell DWP then yes, it's going to cause severe stress for you in the short term but maybe they will let you pay back the monies out of any benefit you will be entitled to once you are set up in your new home?

I can hand on heart say I have no idea about this situation but I don't like to think of anyone this upset.

Can others please advise whether my thoughts are correct?

However, finally, say they did prosecute, what's the worst case scenario? You see it day in, day out in the papers and some people have done far worse than you.

Try and get this sorted in your mind.

HTH x

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a comforting reply. x
I never intended to commit a fraud. I'm horrified by it all.
I guess I worry that in the worst case scenario, I am prosecuted and it becomes public (and that if people google my name it would come up as an open case). I couldn't live with my elderly family knowing, and how much stress and shame it would bring them. I don't care about the money - I'm willing to pay everything back (although I worry how I will fund my life, after!) - I am not from an affluent background and don't mind having no money - they can take it. But I worry so much about the stress it would cause me and my family should it be publicly accessible, wither by googling or in the paper :-(

GirlFromMars_2

janey22 wrote: »

Yes I was working in multiple part-time jobs prior to claiming ESA, but then got signed off sick and claimed after my SSP ran out and was unable to get signed back on to work because I was very unwell.
Despite some confusion when looking at my paperwork, (where it mentions "contributions") I have found out that it is income-related ESA.

If you are entitled to contributions based ESA then you will have been receiving both Contributions based ESA and an Income related top up. The income related top up is the only part that would be affected by your savings, and as you haven't been in receipt of the Severe Disability Premium this top up may have been quite small.

Please take a look at your award letter, and write here exactly what it says with reference to the Contributions amount and the Income related amount (someone who actually understands the letter will be able to help you decipher it).

I was also told by the CAB that I should have been in receipt of the Severe Disability Premium for the last 3 years or so; however I don't see that this "underpayment" is relevant now, as my overpayment is far worse (and perhaps I should not have been entitled to any ESA at all since my savings went up - so I wouldn't consider the lack of the disability premium relevant).

Again, the contributions element is important here. If you have an entitlement to Contributions Based ESA, you would still be entitled to it no matter what your savings are.

The Severe Disability Premium is also important here, as you would have been entitled to some of it until your savings went over the £6000 / £16000 thresholds, so the backpay SDP may offset the overpayment.

Honestly, I think this situation is much more complicated than you currently believe it is, and it is possible your overpayment is significantly lower than you believe it to be right now.

PLEASE call the CAB and the DWP and start putting things right so that you don't have to worry about this any more.

Thank you for your advice. In an ideal world I would like to not have to access this account and deplete funds that I can pay my 6 months rent in advance, because yes, then I can just say "take this money back now please!" however I'm being evicted and have no choice but to take a vast amount out to secure myself a home.

Have you considered putting your belongings into storage and staying with a friend or getting a short term hostel type place for a few weeks while this is sorted out? How soon are you actually being evicted?

I just hope that the DWP will not accuse me of purposely depleting the funds because I don't want to have to touch them - only for the purpose of paying the DWP back easily and quickly. Unfortunately I will not have enough money in the account after I've paid my rent in advance (plus fees and moving costs) to pay them back straight away :-( I will also be well under the £16,000 theshold. I wonder what my position would be with regards to ESA and HB if I go to them now, they say I have not been entitled to ESA for x amount of time due to my savings, but then after I move I have under the threshold again (and owe them money). I am on high rate DLA and a return to work is not likely in the near future.

As soon as you access this account it will be obvious to the DWP that you are aware of this account, and are using it. If you are spending money you owe them, I cannot see them being happy about the situation.

BUT, as I have said I think you are overestimating the overpayment. Please find out if you are have a contributions based entitlement. It will vastly decrease the amount of the overpayment and bring you back to a point where you may be able to pay back any money owed and find yourself somewhere to rent without all this worry.

The current weekly ESA figures are as follows ...
Main £72.40 - (Conts based if you have an entitlement)
Support Group £35.75 - Conts based if you have an entitlement)
Enhanced Disability Premium £15.55 - Income Related
Severe Disability Premium £61.10 - Income Related

As you say you aren't receiving the SDP it may well only be the £15.55 EDP that is affected by your savings.

janey22

GirlFromMars wrote: »

If you are entitled to contributions based ESA then you will have been receiving both Contributions based ESA and an Income related top up. The income related top up is the only part that would be affected by your savings, and as you haven't been in receipt of the Severe Disability Premium this top up may have been quite small.

Please take a look at your award letter, and write here exactly what it says with reference to the Contributions amount and the Income related amount (someone who actually understands the letter will be able to help you decipher it).
Again, the contributions element is important here. If you have an entitlement to Contributions Based ESA, you would still be entitled to it no matter what your savings are.

.

Hello,
I have found the most recent of my aware letters for ESA.
In the section on the final page is states:

How Employment and Support Allowance has been worked out:

The Employment and Support Allowance Award

The payment of Employment and Support Allowance is based on your National Insurance Contribution and any additional amount the law says you need to live on.

Your living expenses £72.40
Extra money because of the Disability Income Guarantee £15.55

Limited capability for work addition

Extra money because you are in the Support Group £35.75
Which gives a total income-related amount £123.70

Income and Benefits

DLA - Care Comp for you
is not counted as income towards Employment and Support Allowance
DLA - Mobil Comp for you
is not counted as income towards Employment and Support Allowance

Your income-related amount is £123.70 less total income of £0.00

So your income-related amount is £123.70

Thank you so much everyone.
x

LostAndAshamed

As far as I'm aware, that means you are on entirely income-related ESA. So it would all be affected by the savings.

You need to tell the DWP. You have no moves left. If you access the account to pay anything, they'll know that you know about it, and you could struggle to prove that you didn't know about it.

If you tell them, they'll calculate your overpayment, and whether you retain any eligibility. You can then ask them if you can use the payment for rent in advance, for example, and you'll have their answer in writing - which will be vitally important when it comes to not being penalised.

The alternative is that you come off benefits but spend every day worrying if you'll get a letter saying that the computer reviewed your case and it found your savings account. You'd then be treated as if you had the money. You could run into difficulties if you ever need income based benefits again, too.

I know how scary this must be. I can totally understand wanting to put your head in the sand, but the longer that you know about this and do nothing, the less accidental it will look to the DWP. If you knowingly conceal it from them, then you are continuing the fraud.

GirlFromMars_2

Hello,
I have found the most recent of my aware letters for ESA.
In the section on the final page is states: ....

The DWP really aren't going to win any awards for clear English!

I've just checked my award letter, and mine is phrased in exactly the same way, and I definitely have an entitlement to contributions based ESA as I've only recently added the income based top ups.

You said you were working prior to claiming ESA, so hopefully you had enough NI contributions during this period to cover you.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge of the DWPs wording can decipher it for you!

Your other option is to phone the DWP and ask, although I think you need to tell them about the overpayment as soon as possible, and as soon as you speak to them.

Please please contact the CAB/DWP as soon as possible to fix this. There is no other way out of the situation I'm afraid. Whether they find out about the overpayment next week or in 3 years time you will still have to pay it back.