Can I still use the NEWBIE template with a court appeal?

Rodigan

bargepole wrote: »

The court staff told you wrong, then.


You have the option to pay, or to defend, on the claim form. If you opt to defend, there will be a hearing. It's not a summons, you only get those for criminal cases, this is a civil claim.


And you don't 'appeal', you have to write a defence, explaining why you aren't liable, either on the facts of the case, or points of law.


You have many, many hours of reading ahead of you to get up to speed on this.

Thanks for the info. I don't have time for many hours of reading. So would you suggest just paying?

pogofish

Rodigan wrote: »

Where do I find the LBCC Sticky?

Thanks

Its with the rest of the stickies - fourth thread below the Newbies Sticky.

bazster

Rodigan wrote: »

Thanks for the info. I don't have time for many hours of reading. So would you suggest just paying?

Everyone who pays does a disservice to all potential future victims.

Coupon-mad

Rodigan wrote: »

Where do I find the LBCC Sticky?

Thanks

You don't need that sticky thread - you are past the LBCCC.

What you needed to do was simply read further than just the first post in the Newbies sticky. Look again and read post #5 of it. So far I am not convinced you are going to be up to putting a decent defence together if you can't manage to scroll down the Newbies thread where it tells you to read about small claims...

I hope you prove me wrong but I don't have much hope, seeing as you've also apparently 'sat on' this Court Claim for 2 or 3 weeks if you only have 7 days left. Have you even acknowledged the claim online? You were meant to do that within 14 days which it tells you clearly on the form.

Let us know when you have read the links in post #5 of the Newbies thread. You can show us the defence too if you have time. Don't skimp on it.

Also what's wrong with simply looking for other cases about PE small claims which are all over this forum? Literally hundreds of threads here for you to read and see how people defended and what their outcome was (a hearing or not - cases are won, lost, or cancelled or 'stayed' and there is so much you need to know). So I would read back 20 pages here and pick out and read every thread title about a PE small claim and read the advice as if it was for you. Come back when you know what the Beavis case is and to show us the draft defence and to confirm you have read a shedload of other threads here from people in the same boat, so you know what happens next. We will help more when you help yourself - the reading is for you to do now.

gertysingh

Rodigan - PE have been taking out loads of court cases (over 7000 this year). They will tell you they have won over 90% because people like you just give up and pay up or don't turn up to court, allowing them to take out a CCJ on a non-payment.

Read the information that Parking Prankster has put together and you will get a very different story that of the people who fight it - most win!

PE's financials are in trouble. Between 2012-2013 their company accounts took a big unattractive fall.

This company enjoys bullying because that is their revenue source. At the end of the day it is your choice whether you fight it or pay it. If you decide to fight it, you will need to raise your game. Your additional bonus is that you have started a thread in a place where you will get loads of help.

Also you can call Northampton CC - have found them always extremely helpful.

Get reading and get this sorted. 'Cos you can do this as so many before you have also done.

gertysingh

P.S. BargePole and Coupon Mad have already given you directions....and within this forum you will find many examples of posters who have had to fight PE in court. At the very least specify the claim is defended to give yourself an extra 14 days to sort yourself out.

Coupon-mad

He won't get an extra 14 days, he only gets 28 days plus service, all told, from the date of the court papers.

Here's a thread on pepipoo with lots of advice & links:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=91060

I don't have time for many hours of reading. So would you suggest just paying?

You are stuffed then unless you just bung in a defence as per the examples here (NOT a lot of reading, in comparison to that done by most people here!):

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=64350600&postcount=5

Or you could pay ParkingticketAppeals (Google them) £19.99 to write you a defence and then you could put in a major complaint if this was a retailer like Morrisons, to at least get PE to 'offer' you a settlement of £60 (I still wouldn't pay but if you can't read up on the defence needed you need all the options you can get).

NO I would not pay them the silly £160 or whatever, right now, why would you just fold?! If you are going to do that you could at least put up a fight and bung a defence in to buy yourself time. Then if you get wobbly later on you could always settle just before the hearing (you have months yet as long as you just DEFEND it!). But chances are if you just put a bit of time in, you could get the £60 'offer' or negotiate less in between times, or you might get the case 'stayed' for the Beavis case (don't ask, read the links and learn about it).

Rodigan

Thanks for the help guys...I'm on this!!

Will get back to you soon...

Coupon-mad

I am glad you are on it and prepared to read up on it, at least to get a defence in then to ask your local court for a stay for the Beavis case. amy as well try at least that, and then (after getting the defence in) complain to the landowner as well. That doesn't take too much effort except the reading, and it's all good life experience after all.

Show us your draft defence if you get time - don't miss the deadline. Submit it online via MCOL. Hope you have already whizzed to acknowledge the claim online now!

Rodigan

Hi again,

I think I am ready to proceed, my defence is as follows:

1. I dispute the entirety of the claim
2. ParkingEye did not send me a letter before claim which was compliant with practice directions. As a result the parties have not been able to able to complete the exchange of information needed for me to file my full defence and have not been able to complete Alternative Dispute Resolution.
3. ParkingEye have not filed enough information in the particulars of claim to establish a cause of action. They have not indicated whether the claim is for a contractual charge, breach of contract or trespass, although the wording ‘parking without authority’ indicates it is for trespass. They are not the landowner and have not established under what authority they bring the claim.
4. It herefore request the claim is stayed until ParkingEye provide full particulars of claim.
5. Parking cases explore complex areas of law. I estimate that any hearing will need between a half day to a day to hear all the issues.
6. ParkingEye never attend court personally, but use an advocate from LPC Law who offer a fixed fee service for around £250 for a 3 hour hearing (ParkingEye can confirm the exact amount) or more if the hearing is longer.
7. It is clear therefore, that as legal costs are not normally reclaimable in the small claims court that ParkingEye have no sensible financial basis for pursuing this claim as they will make a loss, whatever the result. Moreover, this case will take a great deal of the court’s time.
8. I therefore propose we use the industry standard dispute mechanism which is to use ParkingEye’s appeal service first and then the independent adjudication service POPLA next. This costs ParkingEye £27. However, they will be better off financially than if we carry on to a hearing, whatever the result.
9. POPLA is not normally binding on the motorist. However, I will agree to be bound by the result of POPLA.
10. ParkingEye are known never to agree to use POPLA unless the court orders this. In the case of ParkingEye v Mr O, 3JD00791 at Croydon County Court, Judge Major ordered that
1. Proceedings are stayed[1]
2. Refer the dispute to POPLA in the first instance
11. The case then proceeded to POPLA [2]
12.A similar order would save costs for all parties and the court
13.In the event the court decides POPLA is not suitable then I request that the case be stayed for both parties to compete pre-court actions.
14.I will then file my defence based on the following points
a. ParkingEye are not the landowner, and have not shown they have the landowner’s permission to take court action in their own name. They therefore have no standing to bring the case
b. [As this was a free carpark, there is no consideration from driver to ParkingEye and a contract therefore cannot be said to exist. At most, there can only be a licence to park]
c. [In the event ParkingEye claim they are charging for breach of contract I point out that as no parking was allowed at the time there can be no contract as there was no consideration. The claim can only be for trespass.]
d. In the event ParkingEye claim they are charging for breach of contract then according to well established case law; and also the British Parking Association code of conduct, which they have agreed to obey; and also which their standard contract with the landowner states they must comply with; then any charge for breach of contract must be a true pre-estimate of loss. The creditor for breach of contract, as shown by ParkingEye’s standard contract, is the landowner. The landowner’s loss in this situation is zero or negligible. As ParkingEye’s standard contract does not pass on recovery costs to the landowner then the landowner has made no loss from recovery costs. In any case, as ParkingEye’s accounts show they make over 30% profit on charges for breach of contract, the charge cannot be a true pre-estimate of loss
e. [The signage is not sufficient to create a contract between ParkingEye and the motorist]
f.

- Could I add at the end the reason why I over stayed the 2 free hours was because I had to stop driving due to tiredness, I literally could barely keep my eye's open any longer - so I pulled in the services to rest for a while but then woke up 3 hours later. It didn't even occur to me that there was any time restrictions at a motorway services at 1am on a Sunday.
Or is this just mitigating circumstances and therefore irelavant to the case?

Also, is it necessary to write to the landowner to complain as I can see it doesn't usually get any response?

Many thanks for your help!