Electric only heating

crusty_dread

Hello all,

My first post here so apologies if I ask about anything that's been covered a zillion times already.

Basically, I'm trying to work out what type of heating will be the most effective at keeping us warm at the cheapest possible cost. Nothing unusual so far..!

The answer of course depends on the circumstances, so here we go:

The house is a 2 bedroom mid-terrace, built in 1968. There is no gas supply, only electricity. The original heating is the underfloor storage-type, split over 3 areas, lounge, dining room and kitchen with a wall mounted thermostat for each area. Apparently, that was meant to suffice for the entire house, upstairs included...:rotfl: I'm still not entirely sure how it it works, as the only controls are the thermostats and an isolating switch.

Previous owners have added basic convector heaters in each bedroom and also in the dining room. We added one with a fan in the lounge, however we tend to use a portable oil-filled radiator in preference to these.

What I want to know is can I replace the underfloor with something more effective without it costing the earth..? Don't get me wrong, the underfloor works but it doesn't really heat the house, it's more of a keep the chill off sort of effect.

We are currently on an Economy 10 tariff with Eon which is really only to charge the floor overnight at cheap rate. The rest of the time we pay a higher than average rate, including all through these lovely warm months when the floor has been switched off...:mad:

Having said that, I'd be wary of coming off this tariff unless I could be absolutely certain I could save money or heat the house better for a similar cost.

Heat pumps, biomass etc are not options due to the initial cost so it has to be something fairly straightforward and not too expensive. I haven't seen a lot of enthusiasm for modern storage heaters but given our particular circumstances could they be a good option..?

We really need better heating as we suffer badly from condensation on the bedroom windows and we get mould patches on the wall if we put furniture against it. It always smells a but musty in there.

We have double glazing and loft insulation but we're not suitable for cavity due to the construction apparently. The house is also located in a dip which act as a cold sink, which makes it colder/damper than the surrounding area.

I think that's more than enough for a first post, any thoughts much appreciated....:)

tberry6686

With what you have said the most economical way of heating the house would be, either get gas installed if possible or electric storage heaters.

Cardew

Agree with the post above, and ditch E10 for the best E7 tariff.


E10 severely limits your choice of tariff and is expensive.


A dehumidifier should help with damp problems, and an appliance similar to a Karcher window Vac will remove moisture on windows in seconds.

sheffield_lad

Cardew wrote: »

Agree with the post above, and ditch E10 for the best E7 tariff.


E10 severely limits your choice of tariff and is expensive.


A dehumidifier should help with damp problems, and an appliance similar to a Karcher window Vac will remove moisture on windows in seconds.

I would caveat by saying only ditch E10 if you are going to upgrade to storage heaters. If your sticking to the under floor it really does require the afternoon boost to perform adequately.

Richie-from-the-Boro

You have 6 rooms , one most of you spend most of your time in, the other 4 are occasional use - with with electric UFH on the ground floor and panel heating upstairs. Go E7 & night store or put in a gas supply.

Alternate idea would be E7 and an immediate URL="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/CREDA-SUNHOUSE-ELECTRIC-OFF-PEAK-NIGHT-STORAGE-HEATERS-SSH12M-SSH18M-SSH24M-/200822229314"]anytype[/URL 3.4kWh NSH installed in the living area or better still a 2.6kW Duo500n which in addition to the 18.2kWh of cheap stored overnight heat already has a supplementary additional 0.54kW panel heater built into it. I'm assuming your existing hot water is a PartL arrangement in which case switching from the expensive and restricted E10 will be cheaper and unrestricted with E7. A small 0.9kw or 1.75kw any-type on the top landing would go a long way to helping with the condensation though most condensation is human induced. Then switch the UFH into frost mode or off altogether. You can add more and more stored kWh as and when over the next several years until you are happy with the outcomes.

[Deleted User]

If you're buying supplementary heaters, radiant ones are more effective than convectors.

crusty_dread

Thanks for all the useful comments....:T

"A dehumidifier should help with damp problems, and an appliance similar to a Karcher window Vac will remove moisture on windows in seconds."

I've got an dehumidifier on order and our next door neighbour swears by her Karcher power squeegee...:)
In addition to removing moisture from the air, we plan to use the dehumidifier to dry washing. When it can't be line dried it's in the spare room on airers which simply feeds the condensation. Our bedroom is the worst for it though, so certainly us humans are the biggest culprit. The neighbours had it far worse, particularly in their loft. They had to leave the hatch open and put buckets up there to collect the run-off. They have two kids though so there's four in their house and only two in ours. Installing new, ventilated soffits (us too) has helped a lot.

I did look into a positive air ventilation unit, like a Nuaire, but it seems a bit TGTBT. A lot of money if it doesn't do the job. Anyone had a positive experience...?

Interesting regarding switching to E7 for storage heaters. I had assumed they would need the extra afternoon boost to keep them warm in the evenings. They would be a total replacement for the underfloor so I'd need to sure they'd be effective.

The E10 tariff is expensive. Per KWh the rates are: 16.18p day, 8.27p night, 8.27p stored heat plus 15.64p daily standing charge. We probably could do better on E7 but I'd want to be certain. It would cost us £50.00 to change the meter then the additional cost of purchasing storage heaters plus installation. Thinking about it, installation may just be a case of plugging them in, assuming E7 comes out the sockets and not via a seperate consumer unit like the floor..?

The hot water currently comes out the kettle...;)
We have a cylinder with an immersion that heats on off peak but it packed up last year and I haven't replaced it yet. It was only ever on if we had visitors. We have an electric shower so no need to heat a big cylinder just to wash dishes. I've been thinking about fitting some sort of instant hot water heater for convenience but I haven't yet found one that I'm confident will supply the kitchen and bathroom sinks and the washbasin in the downstairs toilet. Probably a bit much to hope for...:)

Ritchie, I'm not sure what you mean by frost mode..? The floor only has on/off at the isolator and room stats. I'm not even sure how it works exactly.. My guess is it charges and releases according to where the stats are set...?

Gas isn't an option. There's no mains connection and the nearest one doesn't belong to National grid so no subsidy for connections...:mad:

Richie-from-the-Boro

The meter can most times be aggregated [counters are averaged] free of charge, SP are one supplier who insist on a full meter change. Yes, don't be conned the CU and the physical wiring is already there all that's required is an isolator switch for the night store and if you get the DUO a separate 13a switch for the front radiative panel. You can isolate the UFH by simply switching off [or get the sparky to isolate] at the CU, that way its always available for your emergency needs if ever we get an unexpected return to the ice-age Arctic winter. If you have an open fireplace with a chimney - don't bother, just turn all your heater full on and open all doors and windows.

Best of luck !

jwdale80

I'm wondering if this would be an option. It sounds like your budget is limited. I recently got plumbing work done, and the dreaded thing happened- the boiler had rusted to destruction in its housing.
To my amazement my plumber found me an almost brand new looking oil boiler, with the inside looking like it was only switched on a few times, costing only £180, which someone sold because they were upgrading to gas.
Your E7 heaters might cost you the same or more than:
a decent 2nd hand oil boiler £180,
a 2nd hand oil tank £50,
a hot water tank £150,
plumbing and installation of radiators and pipes £2000 (or is that too low?)
And pipe it all with 8mm pipes in case you upgrade to gas in future.
I'm wondering if this is an option.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi crusty_dread and welcome to the Forum.

Thought it might help if I give you a bit of information about Economy 10 meters.

Must admit, I'm not sure about your particular heating arrangement but hope the following helps a little. There's quite a bit so sorry if I've gone over the top.

Economy 10 meters are designed mainly, but not always, for all electric properties with storage heaters and electric water immersion heaters.

They give 10 hours of cheaper off peak electricity in each 24 hour period for heating/hot water purposes. This is split into three periods at night, in the afternoon and during the evening.

During the night period (usually 5 hours), all electricity is charged at off peak prices.

To work, meters are wired directly into the heating/water heating circuits at individual properties. This lets them automatically switch the storage heaters on and off at the start and end of the off peak periods. Not sure if this is the same with your underfloor set up.

A common complaint with storage heaters is a tendency to leak heat and to cool down too early. Economy 10 is designed to 'top up' the stored heat so properties stay warmer throughout the day.

The more conventional Economy 7 meter also works with storage heaters but the 7 off peak hours are all at night. There's no additional 'top ups' during the day.

With Economy 7, though, all electricity used during the 7 off peak hours is charged at the lower rate.

As Cardew says, Economy 10 limits the tariffs available whereas there's a far greater choice with Economy 7. We only have the one Economy 10 tariff and, from the prices posted, this is the one you're on.

Changing the meter will open up these additional tariff options but I always recommend customers thinking of doing this ask a qualified electrician to check the set up first. This is because of the way Economy 10 meters are wired into the electrical circuits at properties.

Changing the meter might affect the heating/water heating and some remedial work may be necessary before the meter exchange can go ahead.

As you say, we're currently charging £51.06 to change the meter. The cost of the electrician would also be down to you.

In the meantime, have a look to see if you can use your Economy 10 meter more effectively.

They're only cost effective when a good proportion of electricity is used during the off peak times. Wherever you can, it's best to use as much electricity as possible during these times.

If you don't already know them, we'll be happy to tell you when the off peak periods are active.

I know not all these hours are at sociable times, particularly the ones at night. One way round this might be to use timers on high load appliances like washing machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers etc. Sorry if you're already doing this.

There's more information on our website about ways to save money by saving energy. In particular, check out the Saving Energy Toolkit. Might give you a few ideas.

I know this isn't directly related to the type of heating arrangement described but hope it helps a little when deciding what to do going forward.

Malc

lstar337

E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc wrote: »

In the meantime, have a look to see if you can use your Economy 10 meter more effectively.

They're only cost effective when a good proportion of electricity is used during the off peak times. Wherever you can, it's best to use as much electricity as possible during these times.

I know not all these hours are at sociable times, particularly the ones at night. One way round this might be to use timers on high load appliances like washing machines, tumble dryers, dishwashers etc.

Malc

This is good advice, but if you are going to do it, set the timers for either the start or end of the off-peak periods which are closer to when you will be awake.

I used to do this with E7, but for safety I would always set the tumble drier for just before I would wake in the morning. Chances are you will be perfectly safe, but for me I didn't like the idea of a possible washing machine/tumble drier malfunction happening when I wouldn't be awake to deal with it. The recent news with the fire started by tumble drier is a pretty big warning.