Help with jobs please!

James_B.

Brightspark87 wrote: »

I get moving down a rung or two but not cutting your salary from £25,000 to £15,000 in central London.

In line with what others have posted, something does not add up here. We start graduates in my firm on £50k+, I've a friend who manages a supermarket who I believe is on low six figures, and a quick check shows that even a graduate in John Lewis earns £26k when they start.

High level management in a world-class company in London tends to pay six figures, so clearly your other half is actually in a low to mid-level job. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, a job never defines a person's "worth", but I think that perhaps you need to re-calibrate the level that he is pitching himself at. Someone on £25k very clearly does not possess "high end" skills in a professional environment at management level in London.

And please, I am not saying this to denigrate your OH, but he's doing himself no favours believing that he's "senior management" when he earns less than the person staffing the sheets department in John Lewis Oxford Street.

rach_k

I really think he needs to get sales experience in a relevant area. Selling posh clothes is very different to selling fancy cars and that's very different to selling posh holidays. Obviously there are lots of sales skills that transfer from one area to another but there will also be lots that you can't learn in one but absolutely need in another.

A week of work experience wouldn't cut it. I would look at working a day a week in a travel agent or something similar and plan to do that for quite some time before reapplying for the job he went for or one like it. It would mean a 6 day week (assuming he does 5 now) but plenty of people do it and if he is passionate about travel and desperate to get into the industry I would imagine he'd enjoy it, or at least be able to suck it up over the next year to achieve his goal! Perhaps if he often works the weekends anyway now, he could make an arrangement with his current employer that he will work every weekend or 5 out of 6 in exchange for a set day off mid-week? Again, not nice but if he really wants it...

I would look at ways to improve his test scores too. They weren't appalling but they weren't great either. He may as well work at everything he can to give him the best possible chance next time. If he does intend to reapply for the same company, I think they would expect to see everything they mentioned in their feedback had been improved. They mentioned it for a reason.

Brightspark87

James_B. wrote: »

In line with what others have posted, something does not add up here. We start graduates in my firm on £50k+, I've a friend who manages a supermarket who I believe is on low six figures, and a quick check shows that even a graduate in John Lewis earns £26k when they start.

High level management in a world-class company in London tends to pay six figures, so clearly your other half is actually in a low to mid-level job. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this, a job never defines a person's "worth", but I think that perhaps you need to re-calibrate the level that he is pitching himself at. Someone on £25k very clearly does not possess "high end" skills in a professional environment at management level in London.

And please, I am not saying this to denigrate your OH, but he's doing himself no favours believing that he's "senior management" when he earns less than the person staffing the sheets department in John Lewis Oxford Street.

He is the lead manager in a RETAIL store, a SHOP MANAGER as I have said. and John Lewis pay more than any other RETAILER
Have you known anyone to work in a shop and earn £100,000 plus??

Brightspark87

He does not think he is senior staff - as in of the whole company. But of his concession of the shop YES HE IS.

This also is travel sales , earning £20,000 why do you seem to think that he is applying to be the CEO of thomas cook! For Goodness sake have a sensible reply or don't bother.

My friend runs a supermarket in the city - and earns £28,000 not six figures?!? You sound like a complete TROLL. James_B. unhelpful and downright rude

TBagpuss

Brightspark87 wrote: »

I get moving down a rung or two but not cutting your salary from £25,000 to £15,000 in central London.

The interview feedback was helpful but they seem to be giving responses that don't ring true - such as after the initial one what great sales experience / figures he had?! then saying not strong enough sales?

I think that you have misread the letter. They say he has good sales skills but needs skills specifically in travel sales.

I think that you and he needs to sit down and try to work out what options you have.
At present, you effectively want to have your cake and eat it - to keep or increase your current incomes while building up a new career.
What you will need to do (as a couple) is think about things you can change, and things that you are prepared to change, in order to get the outcome you want.

So:

- can either of you increase your income short term, to build up reserves? Options might include your husband looking for better paid work, even if that is in a less ' prestige' area - moving to a larger chain might give him more options, and better opportunities for promotion etc., trying for promotion (does his employer have regional or area managers?)

- Will either of you increase your incomes medium term? If you are in training now, when will you qualify or reach the next stage? are you likely to be able to look for higher pay, or to be more flexible about where you work, at that stage? If so, can you start planning now with a view to your husband looking to make a career move at that time, so that your income increases when his falls

- do you have to live in London? If you were to look for a new job elsewhere, could you move out of London - if so, could you then afford for your husband to get a lower paid job in the travel sector so he can build up his experience and start to work his way up in that profession?

-Why, specifically, does he want to move into travel agencies? What aspects of the job appeal to him? what parts of it does he not expect to enjoy so much? What does he like and dislike about his current job? thinking about those specifics might help him to identify other possible career moves and types of advancement he might like to look into. There may be quite a lot of cross-over with jobs that are more immediately relevant to his current experience.

I agree with PPs that the feedback is unusually detailed and helpful, and that the letter is pretty encouraging. But, like most things in life, there are going to be compromise to make in order to achieve what he wants. Only you and he can decide what those compromises are. It may be that in the end, they turn out to be that he stays in current job so that you as a family can continue to live in London and maintain your existing lifestyle. And that is a perfectly valid choice to make.

Brightspark87

rach_k wrote: »

I really think he needs to get sales experience in a relevant area. Selling posh clothes is very different to selling fancy cars and that's very different to selling posh holidays. Obviously there are lots of sales skills that transfer from one area to another but there will also be lots that you can't learn in one but absolutely need in another.

A week of work experience wouldn't cut it. I would look at working a day a week in a travel agent or something similar and plan to do that for quite some time before reapplying for the job he went for or one like it. It would mean a 6 day week (assuming he does 5 now) but plenty of people do it and if he is passionate about travel and desperate to get into the industry I would imagine he'd enjoy it, or at least be able to suck it up over the next year to achieve his goal! Perhaps if he often works the weekends anyway now, he could make an arrangement with his current employer that he will work every weekend or 5 out of 6 in exchange for a set day off mid-week? Again, not nice but if he really wants it...

I would look at ways to improve his test scores too. They weren't appalling but they weren't great either. He may as well work at everything he can to give him the best possible chance next time. If he does intend to reapply for the same company, I think they would expect to see everything they mentioned in their feedback had been improved. They mentioned it for a reason.

Great shout, I think he has looked in the past - but with changing days off ( he would be happy to work 6 days a week) they weren't interested - even when he offered it for free for 3 months! Just need to keep trying like you say improve the scores.

Brightspark87

TBagpuss wrote: »

I think that you have misread the letter. They say he has good sales skills but needs skills specifically in travel sales.

I think that you and he needs to sit down and try to work out what options you have.
At present, you effectively want to have your cake and eat it - to keep or increase your current incomes while building up a new career.
What you will need to do (as a couple) is think about things you can change, and things that you are prepared to change, in order to get the outcome you want.

So:

- can either of you increase your income short term, to build up reserves? Options might include your husband looking for better paid work, even if that is in a less ' prestige' area - moving to a larger chain might give him more options, and better opportunities for promotion etc., trying for promotion (does his employer have regional or area managers?)

- Will either of you increase your incomes medium term? If you are in training now, when will you qualify or reach the next stage? are you likely to be able to look for higher pay, or to be more flexible about where you work, at that stage? If so, can you start planning now with a view to your husband looking to make a career move at that time, so that your income increases when his falls

- do you have to live in London? If you were to look for a new job elsewhere, could you move out of London - if so, could you then afford for your husband to get a lower paid job in the travel sector so he can build up his experience and start to work his way up in that profession?

-Why, specifically, does he want to move into travel agencies? What aspects of the job appeal to him? what parts of it does he not expect to enjoy so much? What does he like and dislike about his current job? thinking about those specifics might help him to identify other possible career moves and types of advancement he might like to look into. There may be quite a lot of cross-over with jobs that are more immediately relevant to his current experience.

I agree with PPs that the feedback is unusually detailed and helpful, and that the letter is pretty encouraging. But, like most things in life, there are going to be compromise to make in order to achieve what he wants. Only you and he can decide what those compromises are. It may be that in the end, they turn out to be that he stays in current job so that you as a family can continue to live in London and maintain your existing lifestyle. And that is a perfectly valid choice to make.

Great advice thank you. I will in the future get a pay rise and of course he can take a lower paid job, but we have looked at moving outside of london (he applied for a job) but with the cost of commuting for me being expensive it makes it cheaper to live in the part of london that we do.

James_B.

Brightspark87 wrote: »

He is the lead manager in a RETAIL store, a SHOP MANAGER as I have said. and John Lewis pay more than any other RETAILER
Have you known anyone to work in a shop and earn £100,000 plus??

So he's not senior management, then, he's a couple of steps off the tills, or thereabouts. As I said above, there is absolutely noting wrong with this (I used to work on the checkouts myself once upon a time), but it is at odds with your opening post, in which you implied senor management in a firm, not a low-paid manager in a shop. If you want sensible advice, then it is pointless giving misleading information.

As to your question, I don't know for certain, but believe that my friend who runs a John Lewis store is on six figures. A "Departmental head" used to be able to get circa £40k plus bonus, so £100k plus for running a whole shop seems about right.

You seem to be getting quite angry with well-meaning advice; you were even upset at a "brush off" that you've been told was more detailed feedback than most people ever get with a rejection. This is not going to help you achieve your aims.

Brightspark87

James_B. wrote: »

So he's not senior management, then, he's a couple of steps off the tills, or thereabouts. As I said above, there is absolutely noting wrong with this (I used to work on the checkouts myself once upon a time), but it is at odds with your opening post, in which you implied senor management in a firm, not a low-paid manager in a shop. If you want sensible advice, then it is pointless giving misleading information.

As to your question, I don't know for certain, but believe that my friend who runs a John Lewis store is on six figures. A "Departmental head" used to be able to get circa £40k plus bonus, so £100k plus for running a whole shop seems about right.

You seem to be getting quite angry with well-meaning advice; you were even upset at a "brush off" that you've been told was more detailed feedback than most people ever get with a rejection. This is not going to help you achieve your aims.

I am not but your advice is not helpful - I don't need to know how much your friends who are running stores get paid its firstly irrelevant and secondly why would he go for this job which I have already said is £20k if he earnt £100,000- its about how to move out of retail potentially and advice on the feedback. As I explained their reply was completely at odds to the first interview.

DCFC79

Brightspark87 wrote: »

He is the lead manager in a RETAIL store, a SHOP MANAGER as I have said. and John Lewis pay more than any other RETAILER
Have you known anyone to work in a shop and earn £100,000 plus??

I know a department manager who earns £25k who doesnt work in London (but a big city though) and a store manager who earns £100k plus also not in London