UKPC @ McDonalds Holywell A55

Romans55

Hi, I received an 'Invoice' from UKPC yesterday in the post. I met an old friend in McDonalds A55 holywell and ended up being there for a lot longer than we thought, although neither of us realised there was a time limit We were in the restaurant the whole time and spent money in there, although I have no receipts. I have read lots and lots on the forum so feel I am possibly at a point of appealing. There is however several templates of letters which can be confusing. So I have 2 questions firstly the letter below is going to be my first correspondence to them, is this ok? Secondly I am going on holiday for 3 weeks on 14th November, will this cause a problem? Don't want to miss letters whilst I'm away and forfeit my appeal.
Thanks for the help


UKPC
PO Box 3573
Barnet
[FONT=&quot]EN5 9QA

Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No.0507141014002

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on the following grounds:

a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is an unrecoverable penalty and not commercially justified.
b). The signage is insufficient, the risk of a charge is not transparent and the wording is ambiguous.
c). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your written 'notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012.
e). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.

The purpose of this communication is threefold:

1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn in the absence of evidence. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge if you cannot claim keeper liability. Please uphold this challenge or send a rejection letter, so I can escalate this appeal to the independent appeal service offered by your Trade Body.

2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law, reading your Notice and responding, despite a lack of contract. I calculate both my costs and yours to be under £15 at this early stage, therefore, this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my expenses.

3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged contract which was never properly offered or explained by you. The charge is not acknowledged, is not due and no 'service' from you was ever expressly requested by the driver or by me. Neither the driver nor myself gave 'prior express consent' or any consent at all for the alleged contract and it is not for me to reimburse you for foisting an unexpected and non-negotiated contract upon any driver of my vehicle. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - your IAS or POPLA, then the contract still ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies.

As well as not meeting the requirements of the POFA 2012, it is my view that you have breached the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Payments) Regs 2013. In replying, you will also be acknowledging receipt and understanding of points 2 and 3 above. Where sent by post I have obtained proof of posting; where submitted online/by email it is deemed received by you unless proved otherwise. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.

Yours faithfully

[/FONT]

ezerscrooge

Jolly good for the initial appeal.

UKPC tend to pratt about and issue 'delaying letters' so you could add a bit stating that you have nothing further to add to this initial appeal and that they cancel or issue a POPLA code.

In the meantime, get your POPLA appeal ready using the templates here..

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62180281#Comment_62180281

You'll have 28 days to make your POPLA appeal from when UKPC generate the POPLA code, so if you get the code by 14th Nov, then you can send your appeal in and all will be well over your holiday.

If you don't get the code by the 14th, then you should still have a few days to submit your appeal when you get back from your holiday.

UKPC do drag their feet when it comes to replying to letters, so you'll most likey get a rejection letter from them towards the end of November.

Alternatively, you could drag the process out in your favour by putting your initial appeal in towards the end of the initial appeal time period. This will delay the POPLA appeal deadline

Umkomaas

I've called into this service station. It's, relatively speaking, in the middle of nowhere - why would any organisation, requiring customer footfall, want to have these people doing everything in their power to maximise their own profits at the expense of the landowners profits?

And who, in their right mind, would ever return to risk all this crap again?

I'm sure the OP would go nowhere near - ever.

Beyond any comprehension!

Romans55

Cheers, thanks for the reply. I think I'm going to bang this off Monday morning and hope the timings drop in line.

I only picked this McD's because my friend was coming from Bangor and was halfway to me. We both ate and spent money in the restaurant, it's not like we were using just the car park, and not putting business their way. It's also next to a service station so makes it difficult to decide what's owned by who. As said, I certainly won't go there again unless it's just to complain, or use their wifi on the car park for an hour then sod off

Romans55

Hi again, just thought I would garner some opinion on time frames due to my holiday. I was thinking of shooting my appeal off today, but am having 2nd thoughts. The invoice was issued on the 22/10/14 and I have 28 days to appeal. I am now wondering whether to wait until the 13th Nov day before my hols and 22 days in, to send it in. They say they will reply within 5 - 10 working days. My question is how long do I then have to appeal to POPLA? will it be another 28 days? otherwise I might be trying ti rush off my appeal just before I go away. Thoughts?

Coupon-mad

Yes you would then have 28 days for the POPLA appeal so time it to make most sense to you, so you have time when back from holiday. From what you have said it sounds like you are best delaying a little. Do you have to appeal by post, is there not an online appeals system offered? If so then leave it later than day 22.

Romans55

Thought about online but heard a few people say that there were problems doing it that way, so decided to stay old school and post :cool:

Coupon-mad

Shouldn't be any problems with online. I would be more worried about the post, wherever we see a PPC say they didn't get an appeal, it is always where a person just posted it. You could do both!

Romans55

Great idea, I think I will do both :beer:

Romans55

I sent off my initial appeal by email late last night, but I received a charge notice reminder today saying my 28 day early payment option was over and I must pay the full £100. Not overly bothered about this just the timings. Is the start date for the early payment different than the appeal? it said the appeal should be 28 days from the notice issue date, which was 22/10/14. The offence occured on the 14/10/14. Can anyone clarify, as I'm now concerned that my appeal may be late.
Thanks

Umkomaas

It's 28 days from the date on the NtK to get your initial appeal in to the PPC. Don't concern yourself about the 'discount' amount/period. You want to be paying zilch, not £60.

The PPC then has 35 days to decide your appeal to them and either accept your appeal and cancel the charge, or reject your appeal and issue you with a POPLA code. You then have another 28 days from the date of the rejection to submit your POPLA appeal.

Don't fly too close to the wind with these deadlines, especially as the POPLA one is absolutely rigid - miss that in you're in for months of hassle from the PPC and their debt collectors.