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Stay or go? EU poll - Oh the irony.

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Comments

  • jjlandlord
    jjlandlord Posts: 5,099 Forumite
    edited 5 November 2014 at 12:56PM
    Re. migration the size of the population is irrelevant.

    What matters the 'tension' between areas, which may cause high migration.

    It can happen within a single country:
    It happened here during the industrial revolution when cities attracted masses of immigrants from the country.
    Some countries may even limit internal migrations to prevent disorder and slums (That's what China does).

    It can happen across countries:
    If people from the poorest countries can move freely to the richest ones, then likely the only thing limiting migration is the difficulty to move, which these days is almost non-existant.

    On the other hand, despite the border people could in practice move freely between, e.g., Canada and the US. Does that cause mass migration? No, because there is no incentive.

    If the EU made a mistake it was to too quickly allow free movements among countries with arguably a quite large income gap instead of waiting for the gap to narrow enough.
    If the UK made a mistake it was not to keep restrictions when all the other member countries did.
    But in any case the British economy benefited from it.

    Interestingly, many people are moaning about the EU surcharge the UK is being asked to pay without realising that if the UK is doing better than expected it is also because of the immigrants creating economic activity.
    antrobus wrote: »
    The world population is currently estimated at 7.2 billion, not expected to reach 8 billion until 2025.

    OMG! 800 million more illegal immigrants by 2025... We're all doomed! DOOMED!
  • danothy
    danothy Posts: 2,200 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Goods grief, that's pathetic... as is the rest of your reply which stems from that.
    Bantex wrote: »
    What a daft point, the UK is stuck with it's own dross. (Bit like if your own children are not much cop).
    Cannot see the point in admitting more dross though.

    Right, so it's okay to tell people who weren't born here that they can't live here on the pretext that they aren't good enough, but not to tell people of similar quality that were born here that they aren't good enough to stay. After all, it's vastly conceptually different to tell someone they can't live here and to tell someone they can't live here, isn't it?

    I now know everything I need to know and more about the two of you and more than I want to.
    If you think of it as 'us' verses 'them', then it's probably your side that are the villains.
  • Bantex_2
    Bantex_2 Posts: 3,317 Forumite
    danothy wrote: »
    Right, so it's okay to tell people who weren't born here that they can't live here on the pretext that they aren't good enough, but not to tell people of similar quality that were born here that they aren't good enough to stay. After all, it's vastly conceptually different to tell someone they can't live here and to tell someone they can't live here, isn't it?

    It's the way the world works.
    If you went to get some apples from a shop and half of them were rotten, would you not pick the good ones, or would you get some of each?
  • Generali
    Generali Posts: 36,411 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Bantex wrote: »
    If you think the way your adopted country treats aboriginals is OK, seems a bit rich to accuse others of racism.

    I don't think it's ok. I have never said it is.

    This has nothing to do with the EU.
  • Bantex_2
    Bantex_2 Posts: 3,317 Forumite
    Generali wrote: »
    I don't think it's ok. I have never said it is.

    This has nothing to do with the EU.
    By voluntarily moving to the country, does that not show a tacit acceptance?
  • Graham_Devon
    Graham_Devon Posts: 58,560 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    danothy wrote: »
    Right, so it's okay to tell people who weren't born here that they can't live here on the pretext that they aren't good enough, but not to tell people of similar quality that were born here that they aren't good enough to stay. After all, it's vastly conceptually different to tell someone they can't live here and to tell someone they can't live here, isn't it?

    I now know everything I need to know and more about the two of you and more than I want to.

    Yes.

    Because one is pretty much ethnic cleansing.

    The other is immigration.

    Two wildly different things that you are doing your absolutely utmost to pathetically link and draw argument on.

    And that will be the end of that conversation from me, as it's frankly repulsive.
  • Generali
    Generali Posts: 36,411 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Bantex wrote: »
    By voluntarily moving to the country, does that not show a tacit acceptance?

    Reported......
  • danothy
    danothy Posts: 2,200 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture Combo Breaker
    Bantex wrote: »
    It's the way the world works.
    If you went to get some apples from a shop and half of them were rotten, would you not pick the good ones, or would you get some of each?

    I would pick the good ones, and throw out any bad ones I had at home. Humans however are not consumable, they are autonomous beings that I seek no dominion over as individuals so do not pass judgement on their individual worth.

    My views are consistent on the matter. It seems however that you are the worst of both worlds, keeping the rotten apples and thinking of human beings as consumables. It's also worth noting that "the way the world works" is not immutable, and hence not an excuse for racism.
    If you think of it as 'us' verses 'them', then it's probably your side that are the villains.
  • Bantex_2
    Bantex_2 Posts: 3,317 Forumite
    Generali wrote: »
    Reported......
    Seems like I might have touched a nerve. Is there something you are not letting on about?
  • ruggedtoast
    ruggedtoast Posts: 9,819 Forumite
    You are making my point for me. Not sure if you realise it or not.

    What most want is controlled immigration, exactly as you describe above.

    That's all I want....but in suggesting this on this forum I've been labeled racist more times than I care to count.

    To me, and many others, I don't care where they are from, I just want to see controlled immigration, fair to all.

    I DON'T want to see uncontrolled immigration for anyone in the EU while watching people in Calais (including children) die and suffer inhumane conditions trying to get here.

    All I want to see is a FAIR immigration policy applied to ALL regardless of where you were born or come from. One which doesn't discriminate based on where you were born.

    You can certainly take issue with that system if you wish to. But it's utter nonsense to apply the racist badge at every opportunity.

    How about Devon, Graham; is it ok for the uncontrolled immigration from the rest of the UK your county receives every year between June and August to continue, or do you want to pull the barricades up on that too?

    I mean, that would only be fair. If we are going to count the French in and out, create a visa backlog with the Dutch and repel the Romanians then it would be rather illogical to continue allowing people from Scotland into the West Country when it is already full with people from London.
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