Parking Charge Notice Bath University - F1RST PARKING

bongo_boy

Dear Forum,
First post so please be kind (I did after all take the time not to hijack another thread).

10 days ago my vehicle received a PCN from F1RST PARKING.

As the RK I was passed the window ticket.

I was midway through writing an appeal to the company having logged in to the company's website (this used vehicle reg and ticket number) to check what my vehicle had done wrong (apparently parked in a restricted area). Then reading through the forum some more I have come across a conflict of information.

In one post it stated to appeal first to the issuing company and await your refusal.

In another it states to wait for the NTK...before you then appeal.

Before I press send I wanted to check what should be done...

The vehicle was parked (due to being loaded) in an poorly/arguably even unsigned area, off road, not in a parking space.

Other than logging in no details have been submitted to the company.

To consider the 50% discount on the vehicles £60 ticket it is requested that the payment or appeal is made by this friday.

Would very much welcome your input (before Friday!)

Many thanks

ezerscrooge

Well well, the landowner states that the parking charges are intended to be a deterrent ...

http://www.bath.ac.uk/security/parking/parking-regulations/index.html

....that is very naughty but is great for your No GPEOL argument.

Wait for your NtK, then let First Parking have your standard appeal as given in the Newbies thread.

You'll win at POPLA if it gets that far, but don't send a POPLA appeal until it has been checked out on here (personal details removed of course).

Umkomaas

Just to check this out, as when I'm speed reading this thread, it's not immediately clear what have you received so far from the PPC?

1. A windscreen ticket (and nothing more)?

2. A windscreen ticket and a follow up (in 28 - 56 days after the parking event) 'Notice to Keeper' (NtK) letter?

3. A NtK (within 14 days of the parking event)?

It doesn't matter 'what happened' (poorly lit areas or whatever), neither should you concern yourself about the wholly misleading 'discount period'. Work with us (and you'll have to learn and get on with much of the work yourself!) and you'll be paying nothing, rien, nada, zilch.

Let us know precisely where you are in relation to above questions.

bongo_boy

I have only received the window ticket. Nothing more.

I am anticipating now waiting for the NTK

Umkomaas

bongo_boy wrote: »

I have only received the window ticket. Nothing more.

I am anticipating now waiting for the NTK

Yes, do that. Don't make any contact with the PPC until then.

Meantime use the intervening period to read up on how to deal with things once the NtK arrives, by working through the initial post of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky near the top of the forum index.

spikyone

Well, that place has certainly gone downhill (not literally, as those familiar with the place will know). As others have said, this is an easy win if it ever gets to POPLA, but beware the university trying it on with some form of 'punishment', as in this thread...


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5081979

bongo_boy

Hi All,
The notice to keeper (NTK) has just arrived.

My intention is now to appeal to F1rst Parking in writing using the outline from the newbies thread copied in blue text below.

However, before I do this I would appreciate someone going over the NTK (I have also included the windscreen ticket the driver passed me), in case there is anything I should add or retract from the letter.

As I can not post urls (Newbie rules) please amend the links with the prefix hotel tango tango papa : / /

FRONT OF WINDSCREEN TICKET:
farm8.staticflickr.com/7483/15658595449_4542510cc4_b.jpg

REAR OF WIDSCREEN TICKET (3 PARTS):

1: Top part of rear of ticket (Breach of contract codes)
farm8.staticflickr.com/7480/15818763826_7f9f253a3c_b.jpg

2:MID Part RE Appeals
farm9.staticflickr.com/8677/15844607895_90959970e4_b.jpg

3: Bottom part - Information & Payment
farm8.staticflickr.com/7519/15843965642_1f1bd7b7bc_b.jpg

FRONT OF NTK:
farm8.staticflickr.com/7485/15844618385_b7795fe1c6_b.jpg

REAR OF NTK:
farm9.staticflickr.com/8641/15657264260_c1bfdf3085_b.jpg



Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ..1234567..

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified.
b). As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen, the wording is ambiguous and the predominant purpose of your business model is intended to be a deterrent.
c). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations.
e). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.
f). This is not a 'parking ticket' - it is an unsolicited invoice with as much merit as the publicly-derided £100 taken unlawfully from customers by a dingy Blackpool Hotel.

Your clients should be thoroughly ashamed of the shoddy way you treat consumers visiting their premises. The landowner will be made fully aware of this matter and your response, which I will forward to their CEO when I complain in writing and via social media, as appropriate.

Parking firms like yours fail to demonstrate even a basic understanding of customer service. The reputation of your business model appears to be more akin to a protection racket than 'parking management'. Your ATA may offer sound-bites about driving up standards or fight for motorists' rights but in reality they are not a regulator; they merely exist to represent the interests of paying members, in order to gain access to DVLA data. The public have no faith in the private parking industry and, as far as I have seen, your firm has not shown itself to be any different than the ex-clampers with whom you share a membership.

The purpose of this communication is:

1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I suggest you uphold this challenge now or alternatively, send a rejection letter - subject to accepting my claim for costs as clearly stated below, since you have no case.

2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law and responding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15. Therefore, this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.

3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - IAS or POPLA, then the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies. The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. It is the will of Parliament following the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that express consent is obtained for consumer contracts now - not implied consent - and that information is provided in a durable medium in advance.

You have failed to meet these requirements. The foisting of unexpected contracts like this on consumers, by stealth, is a thing of the past.

By replying to the challenge you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you decide to persist with this unwarranted threat, I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs and a pre-estimate of my loss - and in contrast with yours, mine is genuine - is that this sum will be likely to exceed £100.

I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.

Yours faithfully,


Bongo_Boy

Any further advice would be much appreciated.

Bongo_Boy

Coupon-mad

Yep that's the newest version I tweaked the other day, so give it a try.


Windscreen ticket:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7483/15658595449_4542510cc4_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7480/15818763826_7f9f253a3c_b.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8677/15844607895_90959970e4_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7519/15843965642_1f1bd7b7bc_b.jpg

FRONT OF NTK:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7485/15844618385_b7795fe1c6_b.jpg (note the pretty red ink)
REAR OF NTK:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8641/15657264260_c1bfdf3085_b.jpg

Well it actually identifies the creditor, which a lot of NTKs don't. But it fails on these points in red which should form part of your POPLA appeal later on when you talk about no keeper liability:

8(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to keeper for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met.
(2)The notice must—
(a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;
(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;
(c)state that a notice to driver relating to the specified period of parking has been given and repeat the information in that notice as required by paragraph 7(2)(b)*, (c) and (f);

*{It doesn't repeat the contravention - the circumstances that led to the parking charges}

(d)if the unpaid parking charges specified in that notice to driver as required by paragraph 7(2)(c) have been paid in part, specify the amount that remains unpaid, as at a time which is—
(i)specified in the notice to keeper, and
(ii)no later than the end of the day before the day on which the notice is either sent by post or, as the case may be, handed to or left at a current address for service for the keeper (see sub-paragraph (4));
(e)state that the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and invite the keeper—
(i)to pay the unpaid parking charges; or
(ii)if the keeper was not the driver of the vehicle, to notify the creditor of the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver and to pass the notice on to the driver;
(f)warn the keeper that if, at the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice to keeper is given—
(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges (as specified under paragraph (c) or (d)) has not been paid in full, and
(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,
the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;
(g)inform the keeper of any discount offered for prompt payment and the arrangements for the resolution of disputes or complaints that are available;
(h)identify the creditor and specify how and to whom payment or notification to the creditor may be made;
(i)specify the date on which the notice is sent (if it is sent by post) or given (in any other case).

bongo_boy

So, having sent my appeal by post I have had no reply from F1RST PARKING. The letter was only sent on the 8/12/14, first class (kept the receipt etc).

Their NTK letter was issued on the 17/11/14.

It states that if the debt remains outstanding after 28 days, they have the 'right' to debt collect etc etc - making this the ~17/12/14

However, on the 12/12/14, I received a further letter (issues the 10/12/14), this time from DRP, (Debt recovery Plus Ltd) for £120!!!! (Having been issued before the 28days had passed)

Having submitted an appeal and having NOT had a response do I sit and wait?

I will try an upload all photo's again (as they seem not to be being hosted on flikr) for your information.

Advice appreciated...

Dublindel

You can carry on waiting but you can also complain to the AOS team at the BPA as they have failed to follow POFA 2012 and the BPA CoP.

Umkomaas

They have 35 days to make a decision on your appeal, so you're not likely to hear anything this side of Christmas. If they accept it, charge cancelled; if rejected they must forward a POPLA code with the rejection.

But you need to complain to the BPA now that they have set their dogs (DRP) on you too early, failing to comply with the BPA CoP procedures they are supposedly signed up to.