Estate agents either lying or choosing to be wilfully ignorant/hiding details

myotherdogisabeagle

I've been looking at a house that is listed. Before putting in an offer on the house I did extensive research on what it means to own a listed property and I took advice from a conservation officer friend who looked at the listing details etc. The listing specifies the house's original, unchanged, interior structure (including no upstairs plumbing) but both estate agents who are selling the house (different agencies) insist that the interior is completely adaptable and that only the exterior is protected. This is 100% untrue, but they either don't believe or don't want to believe me, though it is easily checked.

I'd still buy the house as is, but I'm up against another bidder who I am certain would not (they have young children etc and there is no upstairs bath or toilet) so I feel that I am at a disadvantage as I can only go so high all things taken into consideration, while the other bidder remains ignorant of what they are actually purchasing.

Is there anything I can do to ensure that the EAs tell the truth about the listed status? Obviously I don't want to alienate the vendor, but I also don't want someone buying the house and knocking walls down willy nilly without realising that they need permission to do so. By then it would be too late for me...thoughts?

mrginge

myotherdogisabeagle wrote: »

Is there anything I can do to ensure that the EAs tell the truth about the listed status? Obviously I don't want to alienate the vendor, but I also don't want someone buying the house and knocking walls down willy nilly without realising that they need permission to do so. By then it would be too late for me...thoughts?

Lets not pretend your concern is about anything more than keeping you in the game.

If these other buyers want to pay more than you do then its tough. How they come to their valuation and what their plans are are really none of your business.

SG27

It may be that the estate agent just isn't very knowledgable. I would explain to him that you have spoken to the conservation officer who has informed you that major internal alterations, like installing an upstairs bathroom would require listed building consent and is unlikely to be approved. It's possible* that in light of this information he may inform other interested parties.

*aslo quite possible that he would keep it to himself!

SG27

mrginge wrote: »

Lets not pretend your concern is about anything more than keeping you in the game.

If these other buyers want to pay more than you do then its tough. How they come to their valuation and what their plans are are really none of your business.

It's also in the interests of the other party to know. They could move in, install a whole new bathroom, knock down walls only for the council to come round and tell them to put it all back exactly as it was!

mustang1

It is not an estate agents job to provide details about listing etc. There is a principle of "buyer beware" in that it is up to a buyer to do their own research and find out any issues such as listing and its effects.

You are obviously very well organised but the other buyer may not be and it is not up to the estate agent to point this out. In fact, it might well affect the price of the house (negatively) and if the agent did point this out up front then they could be in trouble with the seller.

It is up to the buyer's solicitor to reveal issues such as this and point them out to the buyer before they commit to purchase.

Might be annoying for you but that's how it works.

moneyistooshorttomention

Personally, I wouldn't buy a listed building myself...but you may well be in a part of the country (as I am myself) where there simply isn't much choice available (ie because there are so few properties on the market - down to the size of the area concerned) and therefore you are in Hobsons Choice situation.

I know what that's like (ie my recent move entailed moving to a part of the country where it was a choice between Uninhabitable/Appalling/Really Bad or Bad basically and I just couldn't find Normal, never mind Really Good on the market).

If you have to take "best of a bad bunch" (ie as I did) then you do want to be sure that the "competition" is as clued-up as to just what having to "make the best of said bad bunch" entails as much as you are and I would do so too in your circumstances.

moneyistooshorttomention

mustang1 wrote: »

It is not an estate agents job to provide details about listing etc. There is a principle of "buyer beware" in that it is up to a buyer to do their own research and find out any issues such as listing and its effects.

You are obviously very well organised but the other buyer may not be and it is not up to the estate agent to point this out. In fact, it might well affect the price of the house (negatively) and if the agent did point this out up front then they could be in trouble with the seller.

It is up to the buyer's solicitor to reveal issues such as this and point them out to the buyer before they commit to purchase.

Might be annoying for you but that's how it works.

On that point, I do think its up to estate agent to "tell it like it is" and a recently-made Code of Conduct (applicable at the time I bought current house:cool:) lays onus on them to do so.

Am still turning over in my mind personally as to whether to have a go at EA that sold this house to me and/or the vendor for "misrepresentation" -as neither of them told me that I would be landed with "neighbour from hell" if I bought this house.:mad:. The only light relief I get here personally is watching NFH walking very "firmly" round her place when she doesn't think she is observed, but the second anyone turns up to visit her she lays on the Little Old Lady act very thickly and suddenly comes over all "feeble" etc - apparently!

SG27

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Personally, I wouldn't buy a listed building myself...but you may well be in a part of the country (as I am myself) where there simply isn't much choice available (ie because there are so few properties on the market - down to the size of the area concerned) and therefore you are in Hobsons Choice situation.

I know what that's like (ie my recent move entailed moving to a part of the country where it was a choice between Uninhabitable/Appalling/Really Bad or Bad basically and I just couldn't find Normal, never mind Really Good on the market).

If you have to take "best of a bad bunch" (ie as I did) then you do want to be sure that the "competition" is as clued-up as to just what having to "make the best of said bad bunch" entails as much as you are and I would do so too in your circumstances.

Many people love character properties. Which is why you have to pay a premium for them!

SG27

mustang1 wrote: »

It is not an estate agents job to provide details about listing etc. There is a principle of "buyer beware" in that it is up to a buyer to do their own research and find out any issues such as listing and its effects.

You are obviously very well organised but the other buyer may not be and it is not up to the estate agent to point this out. In fact, it might well affect the price of the house (negatively) and if the agent did point this out up front then they could be in trouble with the seller.

It is up to the buyer's solicitor to reveal issues such as this and point them out to the buyer before they commit to purchase.

Might be annoying for you but that's how it works.

Of course. But the OP asked the EA directly and was given incorrect information.

cloo

Yes, it is no longer buyer beware; agents are not to cover up things they know in order to make a sale. It's quite new, so not sure what enforcement will be like, but assume it will mean more recourse for buyers if something isn't disclosed.

myotherdogisabeagle

mrginge wrote: »

Lets not pretend your concern is about anything more than keeping you in the game.

If these other buyers want to pay more than you do then its tough. How they come to their valuation and what their plans are are really none of your business.

I never pretended anything. I'm not sure why you're so aggressive. My point is that these buyers may very well not want to pay more if they knew the truth about the property and the agents are being, at best, willfully ignorant. In fact I have discovered that this is not only dodgy as hell, it's completely illegal due to the Misdescriptions of Property Act 1991. Yes of course I don't want to be outbid by people who think they want the property more than they might...what's wrong with that? I'm completely upfront about that.