Outstanding care home payments - council not collecting from estate

grumpa

My mum died 18 months ago after some years in a care home because of dementia. Her only asset was her flat + a small residual amount of money in a joint account with me. I also had POA.

Payments for the care home were assessed at a reduced rate by the council. Monthly payments made from joint account which received pension and other benefit payments. The rest of the payment was made up by the council to be repaid from the estate after her death.

The property has now been sold. The asset being about £13K more than the outstanding amount. Contacted council to get a final figure for payment, but they were insisting that they had priority of payment over funeral and other expenses + charge on the property. In addition they managed to leave out some of the outstanding care home charges for which I had bills.

They didn't have a registered charge on the property. My solicitor and another have checked independently, and the property has been sold with no legal issues. CRAG and other guidelines indicate that the council don't have priority for payment. Funeral costs at least come first and doubtless the legal profession get a call in there before the council. Contacted council requesting re-assessment of charges taking into account the CRAG [legal?] guidelines, particularly with regard to the £13K expected residue after all payments

Since contacting the council for a re-assessment over 3 months ago I've heard nothing. The money is sat in my account happily gathering interest.

OK, part of me is tempted to say that the council is incompetent so doesn't deserve the money - and I could make more use of it, but the other part says that I shouldn't freeload on all the other taxpayers. I'm also one of those taxpayers and it's my local council. There's an outstanding bill - and it needs to be paid, but in accordance with the guidelines. I'd just like someone in the council to do their job, re-assess the outstanding amount against the guidelines, and give me a corrected final bill which can be settled rather than have another threat sometime from the bailiffs (which the council's finance department tried just after my mother's death for non-payment before the property had been sold)

This can't be an unusual situation. It would have been better to sell the property some years ago, but it wasn't. When confronted by the council's incompetence I'd like to check and confirm the details myself.

3 Questions:

1. What would you do if you have the payment but no one's collecting the money?
2. How to assess the financial details for care home payment applicable to mid-2013?
3. Whether to wait for the council to respond, or attempt to provoke them into doing their job?

g6jns_2

grumpa wrote: »

My mum died 18 months ago after some years in a care home because of dementia. Her only asset was her flat + a small residual amount of money in a joint account with me. I also had POA.

Payments for the care home were assessed at a reduced rate by the council. Monthly payments made from joint account which received pension and other benefit payments. The rest of the payment was made up by the council to be repaid from the estate after her death.

The property has now been sold. The asset being about £13K more than the outstanding amount. Contacted council to get a final figure for payment, but they were insisting that they had priority of payment over funeral and other expenses + charge on the property. In addition they managed to leave out some of the outstanding care home charges for which I had bills.

They didn't have a registered charge on the property. My solicitor and another have checked independently, and the property has been sold with no legal issues. CRAG and other guidelines indicate that the council don't have priority for payment. Funeral costs at least come first and doubtless the legal profession get a call in there before the council. Contacted council requesting re-assessment of charges taking into account the CRAG [legal?] guidelines, particularly with regard to the £13K expected residue after all payments

Since contacting the council for a re-assessment over 3 months ago I've heard nothing. The money is sat in my account happily gathering interest.

OK, part of me is tempted to say that the council is incompetent so doesn't deserve the money - and I could make more use of it, but the other part says that I shouldn't freeload on all the other taxpayers. I'm also one of those taxpayers and it's my local council. There's an outstanding bill - and it needs to be paid, but in accordance with the guidelines. I'd just like someone in the council to do their job, re-assess the outstanding amount against the guidelines, and give me a corrected final bill which can be settled rather than have another threat sometime from the bailiffs (which the council's finance department tried just after my mother's death for non-payment before the property had been sold)

This can't be an unusual situation. It would have been better to sell the property some years ago, but it wasn't. When confronted by the council's incompetence I'd like to check and confirm the details myself.

3 Questions:

1. What would you do if you have the payment but no one's collecting the money?
2. How to assess the financial details for care home payment applicable to mid-2013?
3. Whether to wait for the council to respond, or attempt to provoke them into doing their job?

Did your mother leave a will? Who is the executor? What have the solicitors suggested? In theory you can publish a statutory notice that requires all creditors to submit claims before the specified date. After that they have no claim. The funeral expenses take priority and the Council do not have any priority at all.

grumpa

Will - yes. Fairly straightforward - everything to me, i.e. approx. £13K left, which is less than CRAG minimum, after payments - including expected payments to council.
I'm the Executor as well.

Solicitor - not a lot of help. Contacted the council originally and has raised some of the points I've raised with them in letters.

Had wondered about the statutory notice - but then I've had the bills before that was placed. It's not an issue about whether there's a payment; it's about the amount to be paid subject to an assessment against guidelines now that the value of the estate is known. Could be worse - the property sold for more than expected and does cover the debts.

Mojisola

As you are the executor and the beneficiary, you don't really need to do a statutory notice - if there are debts, it's you they will come after.

I found the council finance team very difficult to work with when Dad was in a care home but they were very quick to claim their money when the house was sold!

Have you raised the issue with the local councillor? Knowing that the council isn't bothering to collect debts at a time when all councils are penny-pinching won't go down well with the voters. If the councillor can't make things happen, talk to the local radio or newspaper.

sithemadmonkey

g6jns wrote: »

Did your mother leave a will? Who is the executor? What have the solicitors suggested? In theory you can publish a statutory notice that requires all creditors to submit claims before the specified date. After that they have no claim. The funeral expenses take priority and the Council do not have any priority at all.

Not quite true - they can still claim off the estate (or the beneficiaries if it's already been distributed), the statutory notice gives the executor protection from being sued personally for any debts. Because (as quite rightly stated by Mojisola) the executor and bebeficiary are one and the same here, it makes no difference.

I would leave them alone for a while, especially if you're getting interest. If it gets to several months with no news then I'd give them a gentle nudge, so you can't be accused of witholding information. You'll have to pay eventually, but there's no need to rush