Black mountain

lazer

GlynD wrote: »

I'm going to be quite pedantic here.

1. NI exists on a subvention from the UK treasury, it's not self financing. So it doesn't pay enough tax to cover the benefits bill.

2. The poster in question is also on the bru, as are many others, therefore it is British money you're talking about.

3. It's not British Rule which nationalists are actually against. They do claim that but as NI chose to be in the UK it's actually the unionists they're against - fellow Irishmen. This is a problem which nationalism has faced since Ulster refused to accept Home Rule.

Sorry, I couldn't resist that. I'm so on the fence my bum is full of splinters but I have a really sane appreciation of the problem and I don't rant about stuff. I just get pedantic from time to time.

Now I get to be Pedantic back lol


Points 1 & 2) NI is not self financing, but neither is any region in the UK - as the whole of the UK runs on a deficit, and London and the SE are probably the only ones that get out more than they put in.


The Bru/Dole/JSA comes from Benefits which comes from the UK government, this is not just British money, it is taxes from Britain and the North of Ireland, together with International money, borrowed by the UK government.
AS there is no option to pay money to a NI only fund, this is the only way to get the money NI has paid back, its part and parcel of it all.
I'm sure NI22, together with many nationalists would elect to pay their taxes Ireland, and receive benefits from Ireland if they could. (Although most people nationalist or Unionist would choose which ever way they were better off!)


Point 3 - It is British Rule we are against, however as you rightly point out, the only thing standing in the way of getting rid of British Rule is the unionists, so this is why nationalism is going the wrong way about it IMO - it should be about making a united Ireland favourable to all, instead of being Anti-protestant etc (like NI22 and unfortunately many like him) they should be trying to show protestants how a UI would be respectful to protestant culture, and the benefits they would get from a UI, and that way who knows - might get a few protestant voters come the referendum.


And that's me done on politics for today - might go make some triangular sandwiches instead!!

Cotta

lazer wrote: »

Now I get to be Pedantic back lol


Points 1 & 2) NI is not self financing, but neither is any region in the UK - as the whole of the UK runs on a deficit, and London and the SE are probably the only ones that get out more than they put in.


The Bru/Dole/JSA comes from Benefits which comes from the UK government, this is not just British money, it is taxes from Britain and the North of Ireland, together with International money, borrowed by the UK government.
AS there is no option to pay money to a NI only fund, this is the only way to get the money NI has paid back, its part and parcel of it all.
I'm sure NI22, together with many nationalists would elect to pay their taxes Ireland, and receive benefits from Ireland if they could. (Although most people nationalist or Unionist would choose which ever way they were better off!)


Point 3 - It is British Rule we are against, however as you rightly point out, the only thing standing in the way of getting rid of British Rule is the unionists, so this is why nationalism is going the wrong way about it IMO - it should be about making a united Ireland favourable to all, instead of being Anti-protestant etc (like NI22 and unfortunately many like him) they should be trying to show protestants how a UI would be respectful to protestant culture, and the benefits they would get from a UI, and that way who knows - might get a few protestant voters come the referendum.


And that's me done on politics for today - might go make some triangular sandwiches instead!!

Just being super pedantic but do the Scots not pay their tax too and since when has Dongegal contributed to the coffers?

lazer

Cotta wrote: »

Just being super pedantic but do the Scots not pay their tax too and since when has Dongegal contributed to the coffers?

Sorry Great Britain - had to look that one up! then and of course Donegal pay taxes to the UK, since they do all their shopping in Derry lol

GlynD

lazer wrote: »

Now I get to be Pedantic back lol


Points 1 & 2) NI is not self financing, but neither is any region in the UK - as the whole of the UK runs on a deficit, and London and the SE are probably the only ones that get out more than they put in.


The Bru/Dole/JSA comes from Benefits which comes from the UK government, this is not just British money, it is taxes from Britain and the North of Ireland, together with International money, borrowed by the UK government.
AS there is no option to pay money to a NI only fund, this is the only way to get the money NI has paid back, its part and parcel of it all.
I'm sure NI22, together with many nationalists would elect to pay their taxes Ireland, and receive benefits from Ireland if they could. (Although most people nationalist or Unionist would choose which ever way they were better off!)


Point 3 - It is British Rule we are against, however as you rightly point out, the only thing standing in the way of getting rid of British Rule is the unionists, so this is why nationalism is going the wrong way about it IMO - it should be about making a united Ireland favourable to all, instead of being Anti-protestant etc (like NI22 and unfortunately many like him) they should be trying to show protestants how a UI would be respectful to protestant culture, and the benefits they would get from a UI, and that way who knows - might get a few protestant voters come the referendum.


And that's me done on politics for today - might go make some triangular sandwiches instead!!

I see more, much more which I could argue with - despite your cunning. :T However I will leave it as this, because I think we're generally singing from the same hymnsheet: I've said all along that federalisation is the way forward. I'm quite happy to be Irish but remain (at least nominally) as a British Citizen. I would be happier though if Ireland put its bitterness behind it too and started to engender a federalisation with the UK too. It would provide better financial stability without threatening sovereignty.

Cotta

lazer wrote: »

Sorry Great Britain - had to look that one up! then and of course Donegal pay taxes to the UK, since they do all their shopping in Derry lol

Love you Lazer!!

qwert_yuiop

lazer wrote: »

It is British Rule we are against, however as you rightly point out, the only thing standing in the way of getting rid of British Rule is the unionists, so this is why nationalism is going the wrong way about it IMO - it should be about making a united Ireland favourable to all, instead of being Anti-protestant etc (like NI22 and unfortunately many like him) they should be trying to show protestants how a UI would be respectful to protestant culture, and the benefits they would get from a UI, and that way who knows - might get a few protestant voters come the referendum.

You are so right. This is something I've been wondering about since I was about nine.

Since NI is (or was) the only part of the UK which could legally secede (Govt of Ireland Act 1920), and all secessionists needed was 50% plus one, surely the best, simplest, cheapest, most humane way to achieve this would be to persuade enough of the electorate to support it, by making the idea of Irish unity appear to be the best idea ever. Instead, starting in '69, in behaviour typified by friend NI22, they made a united Ireland seem like exactly what they didn't want or need. In fact, if you could think of a less likely way to get a united ireland, the activities of the IRA etc would seem like a good way to prevent it.
I'd say anyone who really wants a united ireland, and not the weird sort of catholic caliphate proposed by your man, should take note and get him and his ilk to shut up, or better still, emigrate.

We're back to what I said earlier - extremists wreck it - look at little cyprus. Look at little Ireland.

GlynD

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

You are so right. This is something I've been wondering about since I was about nine.

Since NI is (or was) the only part of the UK which could legally secede (Govt of Ireland Act 1920), and all secessionists needed was 50% plus one, surely the best, simplest, cheapest, most humane way to achieve this would be to persuade enough of the electorate to support it, by making the idea of Irish unity appear to be the best idea ever. Instead, starting in '69, in behaviour typified by friend NI22, they made a united Ireland seem like exactly what they didn't want or need. In fact, if you could think of a less likely way to get a united ireland, the activities of the IRA etc would seem like a good way to prevent it.
I'd say anyone who really wants a united ireland, and not the weird sort of catholic caliphate proposed by your man, should take note and get him and his ilk to shut up, or better still, emigrate.

We're back to what I said earlier - extremists wreck it - look at little cyprus. Look at little Ireland.

Some of them had the right idea in 67-69. They were trying to appeal to the Protestant workers. Two things went against them though: firstly they didn't put enough effort into appealing to Protestant workers and secondly the real purpose of the Civil Rights campaign was to foment civil disobedience and once they became provocative the mob element of Protestantism reared its very ugly and scary head - just what the Stickies wanted. After PD and Burntollet severe trouble was a definite. If PD had stayed out of it there was a chance - just a glimmer, but that wasn't what PD wanted.

warmhands.coldheart

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-29636716

Well NI22. Seems your illustrious leader has form again. So hiding the fact his niece was abused wasn't bad enough... but seems she wasn't the only one he knew about.... How many more.??? I suppose he's just taking his lead from your precious "church"!!!!

duggan1

NI22 wrote: »

Mock as you will but this strategy is working, where I'm from it's unheard of to work and when the butchers are bled dry they will want rid of us. By that time the Catholic population in the North will be bursting at the seems needing more living space and Ireland will be united once again.

Having only ever been politically united under British rule I'm puzzled why an opinionated republican such as yourself is so keen to submit once again to Her Majesty's Government.


Surely your best bet is to appeal to (rather than deliberately attempt to denigrate) your Unionist/Protestant countrymen that together we can build a new, federal Ireland, where the natural fears of the Ulster protestant are mitigated by the removal of church influences in the working of the state and by decentralisation of power from Dublin?

Cotta

warmhands.coldheart wrote: »

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-29636716

Well NI22. Seems your illustrious leader has form again. So hiding the fact his niece was abused wasn't bad enough... but seems she wasn't the only one he knew about.... How many more.??? I suppose he's just taking his lead from your precious "church"!!!!

That's quite disturbing, however as usual nothing will come from it. Adams like others currently running NI or indeed the ROI as he is now have done much much worse than this.