Is this an airline rip-off, or just my paranoia?

jpsartre

blindman wrote: »

Look at my old post for proof:cool:

Sorry but that's no proof. All I'm asking is for someone to say: "Go to this airline's website, search for flight to this destination and this date this amount of times and price will go up this amount, then clear cookies and price will go down again". Then everybody here could go and reproduce the result and there would be little doubt that this airline used cookies to manipulate prices. The fact that I have never ever seen anybody provide just one such example overwhelmingly suggests that the theory is not true since examples would be easily found and reported if it was.

blindman

bazzyb wrote: »

Instead of throwing insults around, perhaps you could just admit you made a mistake?

I've read it. I do not require any help, and there's no evidence.

You seem tobe confusing an IP address with a cookie. I know what a cookie is, thanks, and it is not the same thing as an IP address.

Me thinks not:cool:

Yes-A cookie is not the same as an IP address-Totally different aspect of computing:

The main purpose of cookies is to identify users and possibly prepare customized Web pages for them.

How do you think they identify users?

What is unique on your Computer?
MAC address is one, but there is another unique number (along with several others).


I have been booking independant travel for the last 20 years, with the last 10 years on the internet.
When I started computing it was DOS 3.1
So I'm no expert but I do know a few things re computing\Internet etc.

One of my past jobs was to monitor web-traffic to the corporate web-site
We could see where users came from\where they went and how they got there.
We could then manipulate web-pages for their own use and send "relevent " promos etc to them.

How do you think we got that info?

Maximising airline\hotel seat\rooms has become a very sofisticated software driven art.
Seats\room prices change dynamically every hour dependant on complex algorithms driven by (not soley) web-visits\TA requests\Phone calls to CS etc.

Pricing for seats\rooms is dynamic and is tiered so the the first (say ) 4 are dirt cheap. if you want 5 then they ALL 5 are priced into the the next (higher) band-despite the fact that 4 are available at the lower price.

If the software sees a repeated trend from ONE customer\IP address\Phone call at a particular time then (IMHO) the pricing is increased for an amount of time.

If no sales are made (say in 24hrs) the pricing drops.

Feel free to try this with scheduled airlines-not LCC as thay are more likely (IMHO ) to have as such a dynamic pricing.

I know what I saw\experienced and I did not make a mistake.

Maybe it was just BMI that was doing this -they were in dire straights and eventually collapsed.
(Well Lufthanasa bought them-lost loads of $$$$$$$$$) and then ditched them)

Moral of the story:

Do not repeatedly look at airline prices on the Internet fron the same IP\computer as you could be misled into paying more for the flights:

bazzyb

blindman wrote: »

A cookie is not the same as an IP address

Agreed.

blindman wrote: »

Moral of the story:

Do not repeatedly look at airline prices on the Internet fron the same IP\computer as you could be misled into paying more for the flights:

In your opinion.


If anybody can demonstrate something that can be verified, in a way perhaps similar to how jpsartre has suggested, I will take them seriously. If not, then I believe this to be a myth or somebody would have proved it sooner.

Voyager2002

bazzyb wrote: »

Agreed.



In your opinion.


If anybody can demonstrate something that can be verified, in a way perhaps similar to how jpsartre has suggested, I will take them seriously. If not, then I believe this to be a myth or somebody would have proved it sooner.

The only way to know would be if someone who designs and implements pricing algorithms were to come here and spill the beans. The price changes that we observe are driven by many factors: cookies and/or logging that enquiries come from the same IP address may or may not be part of the mix. Even if they are, I do not think it would be possible to perform a repeated exercise to verify this.

callum9999

blindman wrote: »

So if we are getting down to semantics:cool:

What I documented was a true represenation of what happened when I was booking the flights (on that and a previous occasion)

I apologise if I used the word "proof" in an inappropriate context.

I find your explanation of what could have happened, very weak and unsubstantiated (no proof?)

However if that's what you want to believe then that's your choice.

I reported honestly what had occured and up to this point no-one has come up with an alternative explantion as to why I saw the price rise and fall as described.

Maybe you can?

Or do you find it incredibly hard to believe?

I just did... Just because you don't find it convincing doesn't mean it isn't a valid alternative. Not that the onus is on me to provide proof anyway - its your theory, YOU prove it. I've tried to replicate it dozens of times yet have never managed to do so. If you have found an example that I can try then great, if not you have no justification in claiming its true.

Your explanation below stating facts with (IMHO) peppered throughout is rather pointless as well. That's not how facts work... And though you use numerous technical terms in your description, I'm not quite sure it tallies with reality. I'm no expert either, but are cookies not information files stored on the individual computer? You seem to be describing something completely different - the companies server keeping a log of information tied to the MAC address or whatever other unique number you're talking about (unless I've just misread your post and you weren't describing cookies?). No-one claimed you made a mistake in your observations either - they claimed you made a mistake in your conclusions. Simply saying "I didn't make a mistake" doesn't exactly convince a stranger that you didn't!


If there are a "myriad of schemes" to let you convert Qantas points into visa gift cards, why did you link me to a website that neither lets you convert Qantas points nor lets you convert into a gift card?

callum9999

Voyager2002 wrote: »

The only way to know would be if someone who designs and implements pricing algorithms were to come here and spill the beans. The price changes that we observe are driven by many factors: cookies and/or logging that enquiries come from the same IP address may or may not be part of the mix. Even if they are, I do not think it would be possible to perform a repeated exercise to verify this.

It wouldn't be - due to the myriad of other factors that affect pricing and the fact other people are possibly looking at/booking tickets on the same plane at the same time.

You could however very easily demonstrate that it is possibly down to cookies, by doing the same thing blindman already did but allowing other people to see it happen.

jpsartre

Voyager2002 wrote: »

Even if they are, I do not think it would be possible to perform a repeated exercise to verify this.

Why not? If cookies drive price changes then why couldn't anyone go and manipulate the price they see by doing multiple searches? Even the people convinced that airlines manipulate prices based on searches should at least admit that it's odd that not a single person has ever been able to give an example that other people could duplicate.