Division of assets in divorce

groovy_chick

Hi all

I know divorce is a difficult subject and someone always knows someone who has had a good or bad experience ! I am trying to advise my sister who is trying to reach a financial settlement and I wondered if there was anyone here who can help.

My sister married a man 18 years older than her in 2005. She had a property and savings and he had nothing but debts. She paid off his debts on numerous occasions and she has always paid all of the bills (except for some food/presents). The house is in her name and has about £80k equity in it (she had £100k equity at the time of their marriage, it has gone down with the falling markets).

She is 44 and he is 62.

If she has to give him any of the equity she would have to sell as she is not in a position to re-mortgage. She is offering him c£2k to help setting himself up in a new place even though he recently got a £5k payment from work.

What do people think? I know when you stand there and say "all I have, I give to you" it is a legally binding contract, but in peoples experience, does the level of individual contribution get taken into account. If the paperwork went in front of a judge would they reject it and tell her to pay him half of everything she has?

During their marriage they have both earned about the same, but we have never been able to work out what he does with his money as he always seems to run out and come to her or my Dad for subs at the end of the month.

Thanks for reading

groovy_chick

InsideInsurance

groovy_chick wrote: »

During their marriage they have both earned about the same, but we have never been able to work out what he does with his money as he always seems to run out and come to her or my Dad for subs at the end of the month.

This is the nut to crack

With 10 years of marriage with on paper both paying in equally to the married life then he would most likely be entitled to more than just £2k pay off and the clothes on his back.

Ultimately these things normally are resolved out of court and come down to negotiation. We know what she has offered him, what has he asked for instead? 50% of everything or?

Cyberman60

I would think that the fairest way is that a person keeps what they had in equity in the house before they married. Any gain in equity after that should be shared 50/50. Just my opinion though.

As there is no gain in equity, then surely she would not have to share.

InsideInsurance

Cyberman60 wrote: »

I would think that the fairest way is that a person keeps what you they had in equity in the house before they married. Any gain in equity after that should be shared 50/50. Just my opinion though.

As there is no equity, then surely she would not have to share.

Why would the changes in market conditions be so heavily reflected in the settlement?

If he had paid off £50k of the mortgage but the total equity was lower than when they got together because of the property crash why do you think he doesnt deserve any of that £50k back?

The problem at the moment is we only have one sides story which is he earned the same as someone who can pay all the bills for two people, mortgage etc and yet never visibly spent a penny of it. Now either he has a second life, is sitting on a lot of money or he was contributing more than the OP realises. Need to try to get to the bottom of that one really.

groovy_chick

Thanks for your replies

@ InsideInsurance - he has always said he would not take her house, and says to me and my family that he will go with nothing - but when he speaks to his mates in the pub they tell him he can get half. He did go to a Solicitor once who asked him what did he want and made him think he could demand whatever he wanted. At that time he was saying he wanted £20k, but this would mean my sister would have to sell as she couldnt finance a £20k re-mortgage.

@ Cyberman - that is what I would hope too, but I am wary that they only adopt that stance in a short marriage.

groovy_chick

InsideInsurance wrote: »

Why would the changes in market conditions be so heavily reflected in the settlement?

If he had paid off £50k of the mortgage but the total equity was lower than when they got together because of the property crash why do you think he doesnt deserve any of that £50k back?

The problem at the moment is we only have one sides story which is he earned the same as someone who can pay all the bills for two people, mortgage etc and yet never visibly spent a penny of it. Now either he has a second life, is sitting on a lot of money or he was contributing more than the OP realises. Need to try to get to the bottom of that one really.

Ah, I worked out how to quote!

It is indeed a mystery where his money goes - they have never had a joint account so all bills/mortgage etc goes out of her account. He pays for petrol for the car (she gets the bus to work), car insurance, and some food shopping (mostly for himself). He would pay towards presents and meals out (if it was at the beginning of the month!) but genuinely he doesnt seem to have anything to show for it. We have often wondered if he has another family somewhere spending his money, but realistically I think it all goes behind the bar.

Cyberman60

InsideInsurance wrote: »

Why would the changes in market conditions be so heavily reflected in the settlement?

If he had paid off £50k of the mortgage but the total equity was lower than when they got together because of the property crash why do you think he doesnt deserve any of that £50k back?

The problem at the moment is we only have one sides story which is he earned the same as someone who can pay all the bills for two people, mortgage etc and yet never visibly spent a penny of it. Now either he has a second life, is sitting on a lot of money or he was contributing more than the OP realises. Need to try to get to the bottom of that one really.

The OP says that he has paid zilch towards things and her sister even cleared all of his debts, so I think he really has no claim. Only if there had been a gain in equity and he had contributed should he get a 50/50 share of that gain. Perhaps she can pay him a small amount to keep the peace, and to avoid bringing in a solicitor with incumbent legal fees etc.

The house has lost value so should he share the loss ? Possibly !!

Cyberman60

groovy_chick wrote: »

Ah, I worked out how to quote!

It is indeed a mystery where his money goes - they have never had a joint account so all bills/mortgage etc goes out of her account. He pays for petrol for the car (she gets the bus to work), car insurance, and some food shopping (mostly for himself). He would pay towards presents and meals out (if it was at the beginning of the month!) but genuinely he doesnt seem to have anything to show for it. We have often wondered if he has another family somewhere spending his money, but realistically I think it all goes behind the bar.

Hahah... that crossed my mind too. It sounds very suspicious.

Filey

To be honest Groovy Chick, you are not really knowledgeable enough about these things to be able to advise your sister.

Unless your sister and her partner can agree between themselves how the assets should be split (and even then it has to be considered fair in law) they need to get mediation. That doesn't mean helping them to reconcile their differences and get together again. It means sitting down with a qualified person (often a solicitor) and listing all their assets and financial circumstances.

Then they each have their say about how things should be done and will be guided as to what the courts will or will not agree to. As there doesn't seem to be huge sums of money involved they certainly don't want to be fighting over it in court.

It does seem to me slightly strange that after 9 years of marriage that your sister has no idea what he did with his money. Did he never pay anything? (Ah I see from your latest post what the situation was)

Your sister and her husband could probably take advantage of the free half hour that some solicitors give, then at least they will have some idea.

BitterAndTwisted

Well, if he has no money, (and what 62 year old man with any self-respect goes to his in-laws with the begging-bowl out?) he's not likely to have anything to pay a decent solicitor with.

I'd offer him a couple of grand to beggar off, if he's not happy he can get a court to decide and he pays for it.

groovy_chick

Thanks Filey, I agree she needs to get proper legal advice and I have steered her towards Wikivorce. I am astonished as well that she doesn't know where his money goes, but she says it doesn't matter how often she asks him about it, he never tells her and she hasn't ever seen a bank statement of his in the house.

BitterAndTwisted wrote: »

Well, if he has no money, (and what 62 year old man with any self-respect goes to his in-laws with the begging-bowl out?) he's not likely to have anything to pay a decent solicitor with.

I'd offer him a couple of grand to beggar off, if he's not happy he can get a court to decide and he pays for it.

@BitterandTwisted - you have hit the nail on the head :T. My worry is that a court will look at his earning potential with a handful of years until retirement and no provision for it (I think he expected my sister to support him) and her situation with a good 20 years left and a company pension and they will give him the lions share - even though he hasn't contributed at all.