Wanted - short winning POPLA appeal

Guys_Dad

The forum is now lettered with requests to "please read my POPLA appeal" with ever longer personalised versions of c-m's linked template which, in itself, is , shall we say, not short.

There is little point in Newbies simply copying a template appeal and then saying "is this ok?" if it is an off the shelf one and the circumstances are a straightforward case. And it is very obvious that the length and complexity of some recent appeals that quote every precedent back to the Magna Carta have been cut and pasted, added to without the appellants having the faintest idea of what they are doing.

Here is a plea to anyone who has had a successful POPLA appeal that was admirably brief and was fairly recent.

1. Can you please post it on this thread.
2. Make sure you name the PPC and assessor.
3. Thanks

I will then suggest to c-m that she includes it as a link in her Newbies thread. It is likely that it would work with 80% of the cases on here - maybe more.

EnigmaPart1

Sorry but actually this is a waste of time imho.

PPCs are producing different GPEOL documents all along the same kind of format, there is no point quoting a previous POPLA case and the assessors name (that is frankly a waste of time and achieves nothing)

What you are doing is unintentionally setting someone up for a fall as what your doing is making them think they dont actually have to do a lot else.

What people should be doing on here is what has been mentioned time and time again yet people dont seem to be grasping the bull by the horns.

It shouldn't be about the cutting and pasting of "winning text" (anyone can beat the likes of Parking Eye at POPLA" , it should be about de constructing the GPEOL loss document in advance and rebutting every part of the Loss document and everything else a PPC includes.

Take Excel they have produced a new loss document so you need to be getting this done point by point. The Same with PPS/Armtrac.

As there is no collective approach accross the forums this is hard to achieve.

The_Deep

If there are no losses arising from the transgression/breach then whatever a PPC may claim with regard to their expenses in contesting a PoPLA appeal are irrelevant. How does leaving a site generate a loss? What about parking at one's apartment and not displaying a permit?

I read appeals all the time that are as long as your arm. If the PCN is not POFA compliant at an airport, why mention loss, contract, signage, etc., at all.

Guys_Dad

The recent appeals I have read are exceedingly long and usually result in a POPLA adjudication as follows
"The Appellant has made a number of submissions, however, I will only
elaborate on the one submission that I am allowing this appeal on, namely, that the parking charge amount is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

As the Appellant has raised the issue of the charge not being a genuine pre- estimate of loss, the onus is on the Operator to prove that it is. The Operator has produced a list of heads that they have to pay for in relation to pursuing a breach of the terms and conditions of parking, however, they have not stated how much they have to pay for each head listed. I find that this is a general list and does not address the loss that was caused by the Appellant’s breach of the terms and conditions of parking.

I have looked at all of the evidence and have decided to allow this appeal on the basis that the Operator has failed to prove that the parking charge amount is a genuine pre-estimate of loss.
Accordingly, this appeal must be allowed. "


Now, just look at the lengthy submissions under GPEOL/Unfair charge that are submitted for our approval. Most of the appellants haven't a clue what they are including or why.

To stop wasting regulars' time, surely a shorter, successful appeal has been made centering on the major points. Obviously specific failures in signage or compliance can be added where sensible.

Sure, regulars can construct a shorter appeal, but to give newbies confidence, it is much better to be able to write
"Here is an appeal that CCCC submitted and was won. You can quote the adjudicator in your appeal.

There is then an off chance that newbies could understand the much smaller content. So many say they find the NEWBIES thread and linked appeals difficult to understand.

4consumerrights

@The Deep - why is it you seem to think you know such a lot about this...

How many appeals have you done?
How many rebuttals have you done?
How many responses to LBCCS have you done?
How many court defences have you written?
Have you ever appeared in court as a lay rep?
How many people have you helped get their parking charges cancelled?


Your answer on other threads is to "sort it out in court"


EnigmaPart1 is correct in his assertion.

Cut and paste appeals and any general advice - could be giving false or wrong advice to OPs on this forum and others as the situation is changing daily.

There are new Assessors at POPLA too and we all know that parking companies have had tuition in attempting to push through GPEOL.

Guys_Dad

EnigmaPart1 wrote: »

Sorry but actually this is a waste of time imho.

PPCs are producing different GPEOL documents all along the same kind of format, there is no point quoting a previous POPLA case and the assessors name (that is frankly a waste of time and achieves nothing)

What you are doing is unintentionally setting someone up for a fall as what your doing is making them think they dont actually have to do a lot else.

What people should be doing on here is what has been mentioned time and time again yet people dont seem to be grasping the bull by the horns.

It shouldn't be about the cutting and pasting of "winning text" (anyone can beat the likes of Parking Eye at POPLA" , it should be about de constructing the GPEOL loss document in advance and rebutting every part of the Loss document and everything else a PPC includes.

Take Excel they have produced a new loss document so you need to be getting this done point by point. The Same with PPS/Armtrac.

As there is no collective approach accross the forums this is hard to achieve.

They don't all have the skills or knowledge to do this. There are those regulars who do and who keep up with the changes that are happening, but 95% of Newbies who come here have other things going on and can't spare the time, even if they have the skills.

So we point them to the NEWBIES thread and that points them to the process and skeleton soft and 2nd appeals. I just want to have a different shorter proven successful 2nd appeal (POPLA) to point them to and say "There you are and it has worked". If things change, we remove the old version and replace it with the new.

4consumerrights

Case in point why OPs on this forum will Need appeals checked over:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5077832

EnigmaPart1

Guys_Dad wrote: »

They don't all have the skills or knowledge to do this. There are those regulars who do and who keep up with the changes that are happening, but 95% of Newbies who come here have other things going on and can't spare the time, even if they have the skills.

So we point them to the NEWBIES thread and that points them to the process and skeleton soft and 2nd appeals. I just want to have a different shorter proven successful 2nd appeal (POPLA) to point them to and say "There you are and it has worked". If things change, we remove the old version and replace it with the new.

Yes but the is no point doing this if the game has changed

The_Deep

How many appeals have you done?
How many rebuttals have you done?
How many responses to LBCCS have you done?
How many court defences have you written?
Have you ever appeared in court as a lay rep?

None and no. However, I have spend most of my working life helping people to get out of scrapes, some far worse than a ticket for bilking a P&D fee.

Also, I have appeared several times in the SCC, and every case in which I have been involved has been decided in my favour. I have never met a judge with whom I have had an issue, and am of the opinion that all the scaremongering on here about court being a lottery is misplaced.

EnigmaPart1

The_Deep wrote: »

How many appeals have you done?
How many rebuttals have you done?
How many responses to LBCCS have you done?
How many court defences have you written?
Have you ever appeared in court as a lay rep?

None and no. However, I have spend most of my working life helping people to get out of scrapes, some far worse than a ticket for bilking a P&D fee.

Also, I have appeared several times in the SCC, and every case in which I have been involved has been decided in my favour. I have never met a judge with whom I have had an issue, and am of the opinion that all the scaremongering on here about court being a lottery is misplaced.

So its fair to say your experience of dealing with POPLA appeals is zero.

Its fair to say your opinion on the SCC is wrong.

Redx

4consumerrights wrote: »

Case in point why OPs on this forum will Need appeals checked over:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5077832

in which case they can pay for it as I for one have no desire to spend 12 hours a day doing this for no return, case in point below

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5077063