point of use water heaters

Gers

Ooh.. don't want to start an argument here.

Just have to say that my E7 hours are 10.30p.m. - 8.30a.m. We are either out at work all day or not present at home.

We have worked out the best options for us and really wanted to know opinions about the equipment.

Now we have programmable and thermostatic oil filled radiators to replace the very ancient storage heaters. Again, works much better for us in terms of our being here/not being here and we have a fantastic woodburner which throws out a tremendous amount of heat. Loads of free wood and plenty of storage to keep dry and season it. We're not going cold.

Once again, many thanks. I do appreciate all the comments.

PS - won't have the immersion tank taken out. It's just switched off.

lstar337

Gers wrote: »

Ooh.. don't want to start an argument here.

Just have to say that my E7 hours are 10.30p.m. - 8.30a.m. We are either out at work all day or not present at home.

We have worked out the best options for us and really wanted to know opinions about the equipment.

Now we have programmable and thermostatic oil filled radiators to replace the very ancient storage heaters. Again, works much better for us in terms of our being here/not being here and we have a fantastic woodburner which throws out a tremendous amount of heat. Loads of free wood and plenty of storage to keep dry and season it. We're not going cold.

Once again, many thanks. I do appreciate all the comments.

PS - won't have the immersion tank taken out. It's just switched off.

You are going to have to be very frugal with those panel heaters if you don't want to start losing a lot of money.

You have just converted your house to the most expensive form of heating available.

I hope ditching E7 and storage heating doesn't turn out to be a total disaster for you, but I fear the worst. Good luck.

Gers

lstar337 wrote: »

You are going to have to be very frugal with those panel heaters if you don't want to start losing a lot of money.

You have just converted your house to the most expensive form of heating available.

I hope ditching E7 and storage heating doesn't turn out to be a total disaster for you, but I fear the worst. Good luck.

In need to fear the worst, we have converted the house into the most frugal form given our lifestyles. Having storage heaters blasting out heat all day when the place is empty and then by the time we get home they are cooling down makes no sense. The new radiators have thermostatic controls for 'frost', 'Eco' or a set temperature. Coupled with a programmable timer we can have heat when/where and how little or much we want.

We spent thirty years on the east coast of England which had bitter cold winters -2010 being particularly fierce. Here it's not as cold.

I appreciate your stance, however we have thought long, hard and often about the changes.

Have now ordered my chosen option!

lstar337

Gers wrote: »

In need to fear the worst, we have converted the house into the most frugal form given our lifestyles. Having storage heaters blasting out heat all day when the place is empty and then by the time we get home they are cooling down makes no sense.

You fail to understand how storage heaters work. This is the first mistake most people make.

Gers wrote: »

The new radiators have thermostatic controls for 'frost', 'Eco' or a set temperature. Coupled with a programmable timer we can have heat when/where and how little or much we want.

Doesn't really matter, any heat they make is now ~300% more expensive.

Gers wrote: »

I appreciate your stance, however we have thought long, hard and often about the changes.

Have now ordered my chosen option!

Good luck! I hope I don't have to see you come back asking for advice after huge electric bills, though I will be happy to help if you do.

Gers

lstar337 wrote: »

You fail to understand how storage heaters work. This is the first mistake most people make.

This is how I understand ours did! Coming home to a cold place an paying for it is not good - and then having to pay more to warm it up again is extra not good. E7 is a great rate, but then the day rate is not so great so we're paying twice. If I'm missing the logic of that then please let me know. The storage heater were ancient (more ancient than me) and very inefficient and uneffective.

lstar337 wrote: »

Doesn't really matter, any heat they make is now ~300% more expensive.

Mmmm - not sure of your figures there but I wait to find out.

lstar337 wrote: »

Good luck! I hope I don't have to see you come back asking for advice after huge electric bills, though I will be happy to help if you do.

Thanks, however I am confident that this won't happen - huge electric bills I mean.

getmore4less

Are there not wood burning options available if that is your cheapest form of fuel.

If all the pipes off the tank were not insulated that would account for a lot of the losses

A good storage will store and release when you want.


The only instant I have seen in use was an insinkerator seemed OK for cups but not so much for hand/dish washing would need something with higher flow or a mini tank.

lstar337

Gers wrote: »

This is how I understand ours did! Coming home to a cold place an paying for it is not good - and then having to pay more to warm it up again is extra not good. E7 is a great rate, but then the day rate is not so great so we're paying twice.

If the storage heaters are set up correctly, they will not be cold in the evening*. The amount of heat they store is slowly released throughout the day and heats the rooms and the fabric of the building. This means the house is warm when you come home, and you should be able to open the damper to release a little extra heat if needed. I used to live in a solid walled flat in a 100+ year old building with leaky sash windows and I rarely had to open the damper. You shouldn't need to heat twice.

Just remember that when you get home in the evening and turn on your panel heaters, the house will be cold (from no heat all day) and most of the heat they generate will be going straight into the fabric of the house, ready to slowly dissipate while you sleep.

*I have to put a star in because you could have a very poorly insulated house where all the heat leaks straight out, or the heaters could have been installed under specified.

Gers wrote: »

The storage heater were ancient (more ancient than me) and very inefficient and uneffective.

The technology is as old as the hills and simple to the extreme, more to the point it is proven. All electric heating is 100% efficient including storage heaters, only you can comment on the effectiveness of your actual heaters, but the technology can and does work.

Gers wrote: »

Mmmm - not sure of your figures there but I wait to find out.

The figures are supplied by the energy providers. Flat rate electric is roughly 3X the cost of E7, you have to factor in the peak rate, but if you are smart about it you can do very well out of E7.

Gers wrote: »

Thanks, however I am confident that this won't happen - huge electric bills I mean.

I hope so.

Gers

The points made are well observed for 'generally' - the ancient storage heaters were incapable of being used effectively, they are now gone.

I have explained that the new radiators are both programmable and thermostatically controlled so we are not coming home to a cold house and can now more accurately control the heat we have or not have. As a family we do not like central heating because it tends to block noses and cause health problems for us. Certainly an extra layer of clothes proves better than any form of central heating.

Now I've been lectured about my lifestyle and purchasing choices I am still happy with the decisions made.

The woodburner provides all the heat required so far - the next winter (our first in this home) will show if that remains the case.

The thread is about a point of use water heater for the kitchen and so all the advice about that has been useful, so thanks to those who provided comments.

lstar337

Gers wrote: »

The points made are well observed for 'generally' - the ancient storage heaters were incapable of being used effectively, they are now gone.

I have explained that the new radiators are both programmable and thermostatically controlled so we are not coming home to a cold house and can now more accurately control the heat we have or not have.

In my opinion you jumped to panel heaters a bit quick. There are fan assisted storage heaters now that would do exactly what your panel heaters do, but at a third of the electric cost. But it is your house so I'm glad you have made a dcision that you are happy with.

Gers wrote: »

Now I've been lectured about my lifestyle and purchasing choices I am still happy with the decisions made.

Didn't mean to lecture, what's done is done. I just wanted to let you know about the options. That way, if you find after a winter that the panel heaters have put you in a bad financial position, you will remember the people at MSE who can help you out with another possible solution. If you come back in a year and I am still milling about these boards, I will happy for you to tell me I was wrong and it has all worked out great for you. If you come back and say that it isn't working out, I promise I won't say 'I told you so'.

Gers

Didn't go for the panel heaters quickly at all... we've had the house for a year now though for some of that time it was being renovated. Unfortunately the ancient storage heaters could not be renovated and I wanted something which was programmable and thermostatically controlled. We are minimum users of heating appliances.

I'm sure neither of us knows better than other, just know differently.

All advice appreciated, really, especially about point of use water heaters!