Payment Protection-Norwich Union refuse pay out

People_Power_2

I'm at the end of wits end after a nightmare time regarding payment protection on a loan. Have other people experienced similar and if so what did you do?
I'll summarise as it's been a real messed up run around by the bank and insurance co.
Went to HSBC 6 weeks ago to bring them up to date on situation as my self employed income became so irregular this year I decided had to change things, seek new opportunities and had signed on in Feb as a job seeker.
I took out a personal loan last September, the bank employee I spoke to 6 wks ago ADVISED ME to make a claim.
I did this and it was refused by Norwich Union on the grounds that I was 'aware of my impending unemployment' at the time of taking the loan (and insurance) out. I was not. They say that HSBC should not have sold the policy.
They asked for more details, I sent them, explained I was working as a self employed person last year and I disagree strongly with there comment made. They referred me back to HSBC, who referred me to their head office complaints dept who referred me to a branch staff member who mentioned that perhaps it would be necessary to refund the amounts of insurance paid to date given the situation.
I’ve now defaulted on a loan repayment and have been called by the bank credit dept each day, they do not liaise with head office complaints dept and know nothing of my ongoing complaint.
I have vacated my home as I could not afford the rent.
6 weeks after my initial trip to the bank in an attempt to ask advice and keep them in the picture of my situation I've been told today by a branch manager that they CANNOT help me and they will not refund the insurance sums paid to date. I have been far too patient I think considering the way I've been passed from party to party, it’s crazy. I’ve supplied them with every bit of detail, bank statements,info,tax ref and tax office tel no etc
Where on earth do I go from here? Exhausted and stressed.

Esmeralda78

Hi People Power

I've not had the courage to post but your situation has made me mad and I really feel for you.

It's not quite the same, but I took out a loan with HSBC in about 97 when I was a student but also had a regular job over 16 hours per week. They sold me payment protection insurance and I specifically asked them whether it would make a difference because I was a student which they assured me it wouldn't. I just didn't know any different at the time.

Anyway I was made redundant and and surprise surprise the claim was refused. I complained that they had misrepresented the terms of the policy and therefore the contract and that had induced me into taking the loan.

HSBC eventually they agreed to refund the insurance payments in full and put me on an interest free loan telling me that I could choose my monthly payments. They even admitted to me that they did not know how the policy worked that well and had to phone the insurers for advice and that the Insurers gave them the wrong advice!!!!

I'm going away for a few days and I'll try and see if I can find a copy of the letter and PM you the details. I just wanted to quickly say not to lose heart.

I'm not sure whether I should say this because it might be construed as defamation (however, it can only be defamation if it's not true). Anyway, based upon what a couple of people have told me that have worked for HSBC and my experience of dealing with them for 16 years, their staff are not adequately trained in the selling of financial products and they are told to sell them whether they are of use to you or not. So much pressure is put on them to do so. They generally tend to try things to see what they can get away, try and grind their customers down but normally end up being reasonable with those who persist.

Sorry I can't give you much in the way of concrete advice today, but I'm sure some others will give you some pointers and hopefully should be able to get you a lot more information in the week.

In the meantime, if you haven't already I'd have a look around these two sites
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk
http://www.abi.org.uk/
Personally I don't think either of them are the easiest to navigate but one/them I recall publishes examples of cases that have been referred to them and you may be able to find a case similar to yours.

jonesMUFCforever

People Power,
I do not think that any PPI policy will cover you for unemployment whilst you were self employed.
Yes you would be covered for any other aspect of the policy such as illness, death etc but not for unemployment.

Now whether they should have sold you the policy or not is a mute point. They would have had to make a detailed assessment of your circumstances when they sold it to you and they should still have a record of this.
If they can not prove that they excluded the unemployment part in their discussions with you I agree with previous poster that they have mis-sold it to you and you should ask for a full refund of premium and interest to date.

If their paperwork shows that you were informed I fear you have no recourse now.

People_Power_2

Hi and thankyou Esmeralda78,very interesting and what you say confirms my impression from the many members of staff who have passed me around that they are CONFUSED and full of contradictions. I am not going to walk away from this and have written to head office,too many staff members dealing with one matter in any business only causes a mess and very poor levels of customer service.
Hi ejones999, the reason I made a claim was that a chap in the branch advised me too, the literature printed by HSBC states 'Q I am self employed- can I still make a claim for unemployment benefit?
A Yes. However, you will have to prove that you stopped work because you could not find enough work to meet all your reasonable business and living expenses and declare this to the Inland Revenue.Any period of unemployment must not be normal or seasonal in your line of work.'
This was the case,that's why I submitted the claim.
I intend to get this resolved next week,it cannot continue...:mad:
Thanks,both of you for taking the time to reply,much appreciated.

jonesMUFCforever

Have you got a copy of the correspondence then that you would have sent to Inland Revenue?
Have you also got your books showing all income in and expenditure out?
(And previous year for comparison purposes).

I can see your frustration - but you now need to write to the bank asking for a letter of deadlock.
You no longer need this to refer your case to the Banking ombudsman but it will crystalise minds at the bank because for each referral to the ombudsman they will have to pay a hefty fee. If they are not 100% sure of their case they will attempt to settle.

Have you referred this to CAB for advice?

People_Power_2

Yes, I have copies of tax return.

No, I hadn't been to Citizen's Advice Bureau ...until today,I spent over an hour disussing the whole scenario.They were helpful and have referred me to a legal expert for free (over 2 weeks away sadly). They also called the bank for me from the office to ask for a freezing of interest and temporary stop on loan repayments,the bank were not all that helpful unfortunately,they said they could not do this.

I feel that I have got the correct support in place now and expert advice rather than being in a bad situation,worrying alone.

jonesMUFCforever

I do not mean your tax returns but a letter you would have sent to IR to tell them that you were no longer self employed.

People_Power_2

The IR didn't require a letter,they said a phone call was sufficient and the date I ceased self employment entered on my tax return.

jonesMUFCforever

People_Power wrote: »

'Q I am self employed- can I still make a claim for unemployment benefit?
A Yes. However, you will have to prove that you stopped work because you could not find enough work to meet all your reasonable business and living expenses and declare this to the Inland Revenue.Any period of unemployment must not be normal or seasonal in your line of work.'

In your opinion then can you prove that you have met the above condition?
This will be crucial to your case IMO.

regularsaver1

ejones some insurers do cover self-employed for unemployment

these are conditions from a halifax ppi policy: (and paying correct national insurance contributions to be eligible)

"If you were self-employed and wish to make an unemployment claim, your business must:
• have permanently ceased trading and/or be in the process of being wound up; or
• be put into the hands of an insolvency practitioner; or
• be in a partnership which has been or is in the process of being dissolved"

but as an exclusion:

"we will not pay an unemployment claim if at the start date you knew you were going to be made unemployed or had reason to believe that it was likely to happen"

But I;m unsure how N.Union can say that you knewat the start? what proof do they have?

jonesMUFCforever

They will ask to examine his books and see less and less money coming in and put 2 and 2 together.
It is up to the claimant to prove otherwise.