Advice please : medication at school.

lostinrates

Fluff15 wrote: »

Then her entire schedule would shift an hour too, so no change would happen. She would still take her morning and evening medications at the same intervals. Plus, this only happens twice a year (and on a weekend) so not a massive impact in comparison to the schooling schedule.

Diurnal rhythym can have tremendous impact on things like endocrine system , the full impact on various different types of mental health I don't know certainly, but i don't know if any one does. Its not understood even in endocrinology, so....doubt it.

rpc

pollypenny wrote: »

Rpc, since the daughter is in the sixth firm she will be unlikely to be in a standard classroom layout.

My classes sat in a circle to foster discussion.

Presumably there is still one part of the circle nearer the door than other parts...

FBaby wrote: »

Except that they are not insisting on this, what they have insisted on is that she doesn't leave the classroom. She CAN take the meds at 11am in the classroom, but OP's daughter is not comfortable with this.

And is it reasonable to prevent her leaving the classroom? Is her leaving class so damaging that it must override anything else? From the perspective of the school, the bar for deciding that something is not reasonable is a high one.

The question (in Equality Act terms) is not "can she take the drugs in the classroom" but rather "is it a reasonable adjustment to permit her to leave the classroom." No longer can a reasonable adjustment be not taken by the school. It used to be that you could justify not making a reasonable adjustment but that option was removed.

It therefore seems that as it is in most similar cases, it is not black and white and all comes down to how one interpretates the word 'reasonable'.

And that is always the case with the Equality Act. But the bar is set really quite high. I think a lot of people fail to realise quite how far "reasonable" goes. It is, perhaps, one of the strongest and most potent bits of law we have.

"Reasonable" is not a key part of the Children and Families Act obligations, as opposed to the Equality Act which revolves around the term. The C&F Act is far more relevant. The school does not seem to have complied with its obligations under that act at all, even if we consider that a ban on anyone leaving the classroom is reasonable under the Equality Act.

If the school were complying with the guidance on the Children and Families Act, it would be the school nurse leading decisions about medication not the head or class teacher.

FBaby

And is it reasonable to prevent her leaving the classroom? Is her leaving class so damaging that it must override anything else? From the perspective of the school, the bar for deciding that something is not reasonable is a high one.

That no-one here knows and is the reason why a meeting has been set up.

The question (in Equality Act terms) is not "can she take the drugs in the classroom" but rather "is it a reasonable adjustment to permit her to leave the classroom."

Isn't it the same as an employer's duties when a person off sick is ready to come back to work, but arrangements need to be put in place?

Fluff15

lostinrates wrote: »

Diurnal rhythym can have tremendous impact on things like endocrine system , the full impact on various different types of mental health I don't know certainly, but i don't know if any one does. Its not understood even in endocrinology, so....doubt it.

From what the OP has posted, that her daughter has issues changing medication times in relation to each other and her daily schedule; which is what prompted my response to the poster who to me, sounded like they were throwing in a 'devils advocate' question to derail the intention of the OP. Obviously it would be different for each individual.

lostinrates

Fluff15 wrote: »

From what the OP has posted, that her daughter has issues changing medication times in relation to each other and her daily schedule; which is what prompted my response to the poster who to me, sounded like they were throwing in a 'devils advocate' question to derail the intention of the OP. Obviously it would be different for each individual.

I understand.

Purely on timings, the point remains relevant, on that day her timings will be out, and while the number on the clock will be the same her body chemistry will not know that....our bodies continue to function for that hour! ( and it can be really hard, others suffering really have my huge empathy, its something I have struggled with tremendously in recent years....and its very hard, light levels all over the show so diurnal rhythm gets knocked about , the clock changes. Etc etc. i don't undermine the effort when I say ' it can be done'

It would potentially be a good time to make a timing / slight routine change however, if compromise is needed. .

Fluff15

lostinrates wrote: »

I understand.

Purely on timings, the point remains relevant, on that day her timings will be out, and while the number on the clock will be the same her body chemistry will not know that....our bodies continue to function for that hour! ( and it can be really hard, others suffering really have my huge empathy, its something I have struggled with tremendously in recent years....and its very hard, light levels all over the show so diurnal rhythm gets knocked about , the clock changes. Etc etc. i don't undermine the effort when I say ' it can be done'

It would potentially be a good time to make a timing / slight routine change however, if compromise is needed. .

Learn something new every day! I've always been terrible at taking pills, I don't envy those who need them more than your run of the mill antibiotics. I hope the OP finds adjusting easier, and I hope you have found something that works too!

lostinrates

Fluff15 wrote: »

Learn something new every day! I've always been terrible at taking pills, I don't envy those who need them more than your run of the mill antibiotics. I hope the OP finds adjusting easier, and I hope you have found something that works too!

Lots of medics won't even truly consider impact of things like diurnal rhythms. Endocrinologists have to consider it, but is don't do whether its considered or linked in mental health in practise yet. I am sure I have read ( media reports ) or research about it and passed references to stuff while looking for stuff relevant to my physical health. Nothing I can think of particular to bipolar, but it wouldn't have stood out to me.

moomoomama27

pollypenny wrote: »

It's time to lower the tempetature here and work with the school to find a compromise which helps your daughter.

As said, she will not be on the same timetable for ever and perhaps needs to learn to cope with less rigidity. In fact, be less anxious about anxiety. Person Ones suggestion of a 15 minute range is surely worth trying.

As for getting up quietly, the teacher may well be explaining something, even if main exposition has finished.

Talk of complaining to Ofsted is ludicrous.

To be fair we've worked with the school completely, even moving her 12pm pill to 11am to suit them, last academic year, so then moving them again, not only has already been tried, and doesn't suit, but when will the school decide it's not appropriate again, and ask for another change?

I'm not understanding why it's such a problem, if she had other needs, for example toileting, then presumably they would have to allow disruption. I believe the school are discriminating against her because of orevious personality clashes and two members of staffs intolerance to mental health illness.

moomoomama27

tooldle wrote: »

The school are asking for the meds to be taken at break time, as was the arrangement in the previous school year. Reasonable adjustments have to consider the needs of all, not just the op's daughter. There are a number of other young adults in the class who will be affected.
I read it that the ops daughter initially took the meds at 10.35, in the last school year. The school asked for her to move to 11am to coincide with break. Op's daughter has now moved to sixth form, where the break is earlier. The school are suggesting she go back to taking the meds earlier so as not to impact on other learners. The school know this can be done , simply because that was the original position.

Just to set the record straight, because you have misunderstood the timings.

Last academic year she was taking her meds at 12pm. The school requested that she take them at 11am, her break. It caused stress and upset, but we did as the school asked. Her break is now earlier, they now want her taking them at 10.30am. As previously mentioned DD has tried and it has not worked.

There is no reverting to going back to original times, they have moved the goalposts again, this to me suggests they are the ones unwilling to accept her need to take these meds at that time.

tooldle

Apologies op, I took the 10.35 time from your post 65. Can you explain what you mean when you say it has not worked. Is it changing the one time that hasn't worked, or the whole sequence being altered hasn't worked?