Consumer Contracts Regulations

neilmcl

roytom wrote: »

Thanks. It appears this whole CCR thing is a grey area where computers/laptops/mobiles are concerned as its clear you cannot do at home what you could do with a display model in a shop.R

No, its clear you CAN and SHOULD be able to do this just that some retailers are seemingly trying it on. Although this may just be a case of an individual not quite understanding the legislation.

unholyangel

neilmcl wrote: »

No, its clear you CAN and SHOULD be able to do this just that some retailers are seemingly trying it on. Although this may just be a case of an individual not quite understanding the legislation.

Which is ironic given the changes in legislation were - in part - to make it cheaper for retailers to train their staff in the relevant laws.

ThumbRemote

neilmcl wrote: »

No, its clear you CAN and SHOULD be able to do this just that some retailers are seemingly trying it on. Although this may just be a case of an individual not quite understanding the legislation.

The problem is that the law is completely ambiguous.

You are allowed to handle to "establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods". It goes on to define this as "the sort of handling that might reasonably be allowed in a shop".

For a simple item like a pair of trousers, that's straightforward. But for something like a laptop how can you establish the functioning of it without turning it on? Some stores provide sample models to use, others don't. So is the law based on PC World with sample laptops on show, or is it based on Argos selling sealed boxes?

It's impossible to establish the functioning of a product without trying it. Most shops won't let you try their products. You can look at the box, but not open the box, assemble the product and have a try.

It's a poorly worded law.

neilmcl

I don't find it ambiguous in the slightest. Yes, there are shops, like Argos, that sell items such as computers in sealed boxes but the majority of brick and mortar retailers selling computer equipment will have models to demo. It's quite obvious that they're talking about reasonable expectation and the reasonable expectation here is that you can go into most computer shops and demo an item before purchase, so the same rules should apply to online purchases.

ThumbRemote

I'm entirely in favour of better rights for consumers, and really wish that your view was the accepted one. But if I were a retailer I'd be pointing out that PC World is an exception, and many retailers are just box-shifters for laptops - eg Argos, the supermarkets, even PC world may not have all the laptops the stock on display.

stugib

neilmcl wrote: »

It's quite obvious that they're talking about reasonable expectation and the reasonable expectation here is that you can go into most computer shops and demo an item before purchase, so the same rules should apply to online purchases.

Memory is hazy on this one, but isn't there an argument that powering on the laptop and going through the setup to be able to use it is accepting (breaking a virtual seal) of the software installed?

neilmcl

stugib wrote: »

Memory is hazy on this one, but isn't there an argument that powering on the laptop and going through the setup to be able to use it is accepting (breaking a virtual seal) of the software installed?

No, that was some posters (incorrect imho) interpretation of the old DSRs.

unholyangel

stugib wrote: »

Memory is hazy on this one, but isn't there an argument that powering on the laptop and going through the setup to be able to use it is accepting (breaking a virtual seal) of the software installed?

As above, that was a misconception.

For a start it was only applicable to contracts for the provision of audio/visual recordings or software where it is provided sealed and later unsealed by the consumer.

A contract for a laptop is not a contract for the provision of software, it is a contract for the provision of hardware.

The new regs state pretty much the same as the DSRs did:

(3) The rights conferred by this Part cease to be available in the following circumstances—

(b)in the case of a contract for the supply of sealed audio or sealed video recordings or sealed computer software, if the goods become unsealed after delivery;

roytom

Thanks again for all the replies - there certainly are a mixture of views here.

What I wanted to do (in first instance) was order a laptop from Argos, physically examine the laptop at home, check the actual weight and build quality of the item (as far as this is realistic to do) and see if the layout of the keys, completeness of keyboard etc (separate Home, End keys etc), verify the position of the sockets and buttons, test the feel of the keys on the keyboard etc, and judge if all this was acceptable to me.

But Argos clearly said I couldn't do that and its clearly wrong that they said that. But who can stop them telling lies like this? Some customers won't enjoy their full rights because they are deliberately defying the law. They said they wouldn't be able sell it again if I had opened it - well, welcome to the world of retail!

But has anyone successfully returned a CCR delivered laptop that's had the package opened but is unused to either to Argos Direct, Ebuyer, Amazon etc? And getting a full refund? Has anyone here returned one that's been powered up and initialised and got a *full* refund?

Moving on further, an examination of a laptop **should** in my opinion include testing its speed - how this can possibly happen without turning it on I have no idea.

Castle

I got a full refund from Currys after ordering a Laptop online, opening the box and powering up. Their terms and conditions state:-

"In accordance with your rights when you purchase goods online, unwanted products can be returned open so long as you let us know you want to return them within 14 calendar days from the day after delivery. They must include all original packaging, be in 'as new' condition and must not have been used, installed or had any data input on them."

Maybe you want to try them