Consumer Contracts Regulations

roytom

From 13 June 2014 the new Consumer Contracts Regulations (these replace the Distance Selling Regs) - which implement the Consumer Rights Directive in UK law - apply to all purchases you make at a distance... shopping online, by mail order, over the phone or through a TV shopping channel.

Some things aren't included - DVDs, CDs, software (if the seal is broken), customised or personalised goods, made to measure items, perishable goods etc

It only applies to consumers and not between companies.

So I wanted to order a new laptop online from Agros - and I asked about the returns under the CCR. Their reply was that you can't return it once its opened. What?

btw. Argos must take computing equipment back once its opened as the Argos Outlet on ebay is full of things that don't have the original box or most of the stuff that came with it (manuals, discs, chargers, leads, packaging) - or are all those things taken back being resold taken back as faulty? From my experience all 3 items I was sent were well faulty...

Any ideas? (sorry if this has been covered before)

Bantex_2

In what way were the items faulty?

roytom

The tabs I bought via the Argos Outlet on eBay - 2 CnM 10.1 tabs - one totally dead the other flickered all the time, then a Samsung Galaxy tab 2 that defaulted to Russian and per-loaded all its apps in Russian. In all these cases **none** of the original stuff was included like the box, simple instructions or leads etc, so there must have been a reason people were allowed to return them ie. they had done so as faulty.

mije1983

If you ordered it fully online (so not reserving it online and paying in store) then you can return under the CCR. The retailer is allowed to make a deduction from the amount you paid under certain circumstances if your handling of the item is deemed 'beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods'.

So depending on what you do with the laptop, you may well not get a full refund if you do return it.

I've never bought anything from the eBay store, but I have seen they do sell refurbished items. So it is highly possible that they have been returned with a minor fault and have been fixed to be re-sold.

unholyangel

mije1983 wrote: »

If you ordered it fully online (so not reserving it online and paying in store) then you can return under the CCR. The retailer is allowed to make a deduction from the amount you paid under certain circumstances if your handling of the item is deemed 'beyond what is necessary to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of the goods'.

So depending on what you do with the laptop, you may well not get a full refund if you do return it.

I've never bought anything from the eBay store, but I have seen they do sell refurbished items. So it is highly possible that they have been returned with a minor fault and have been fixed to be re-sold.

Bearing in mind they're only entitled to make a deduction for diminished value if they have complied with providing the information required under schedule 2.

If they havent provided the OP with the required information, they're not allowed to make the deduction.

wealdroam

roytom wrote: »

So I wanted to order a new laptop online from Agros - and I asked about the returns under the CCR. Their reply was that you can't return it once its opened. What?

When saying "you can't return it once its opened", they are meaning that only if there is nothing wrong with the goods.

roytom wrote: »

From my experience all 3 items I was sent were well faulty...

Any ideas? (sorry if this has been covered before)

If the goods are faulty, the of course you can return them... just as you could if they were faulty personalised goods.

Any cancellation rights exclusions in the CCRs do not apply to faulty goods.

Probably best to return faulty goods under the Sale of Goods Act rather than CCRs.

roytom

Thanks. There's no issue returning anything faulty, its the fact that Argos reps don't seem to understand the CCR legislation that I'm interested in here.

They bluntly denied that a laptop could be returned once the box/package was opened - unless faulty, but I didn't bother to get into that as its about being able to examine the goods at home for 14 days once received that I'm interested in.

This is just plain wrong as the CCR legislation says you can.

Anyone else had this issue with unwanted goods, opened, under the new CCR?

frugal_mike

The CCR's allow you to reasonably examine the goods to check they conform to contract. They don't let you use them for 2 weeks. Strictly speaking Argos cannot refuse the return, but they can deduct money from the refund (up to entire cost of the goods) to account for any loss of value caused by unreasonable handling by the consumer. The only guidance given is that handling that would not be reasonable in a shop will not be reasonable under the CCR's.

So if you took them to court I doubt they could justify refusing a return, but I doubt you'd get all your money back either as you generally cannot unseal and power on a laptop in the shop.

unholyangel

frugal_mike wrote: »

The CCR's allow you to reasonably examine the goods to check they conform to contract. They don't let you use them for 2 weeks. Strictly speaking Argos cannot refuse the return, but they can deduct money from the refund (up to entire cost of the goods) to account for any loss of value caused by unreasonable handling by the consumer. The only guidance given is that handling that would not be reasonable in a shop will not be reasonable under the CCR's.

So if you took them to court I doubt they could justify refusing a return, but I doubt you'd get all your money back either as you generally cannot unseal and power on a laptop in the shop.

To be fair I dont think OP has actually talked about turning it on. Just that you cannot return it once opened.

I havent been in a shop that wouldnt let you inspect an item out of the box before purchasing.

Whether turning it on or not actually diminishes it in value.......I guess that would be anyones guess and could go either way. I've had both a computer shop and mobile phone shop power up models they only took out the box because I asked if I could see it (albeit the mobile was powered up with no sim inserted). So not impossible although the powering up did surprise me, I was really only wanting to get a look at it to judge quality, size, finish etc!

neilmcl

frugal_mike wrote: »

So if you took them to court I doubt they could justify refusing a return, but I doubt you'd get all your money back either as you generally cannot unseal and power on a laptop in the shop.

Most shops selling computers will have models that you'll be able to demo. Being able to do this with an online purchase is entirely within the scope of being able to examine the goods as you would be able to do in a shop.

roytom

Thanks. It appears this whole CCR thing is a grey area where computers/laptops/mobiles are concerned as its clear you cannot do at home what you could do with a display model in a shop.

Argos wants its bread buttered both sides - they want to sell things using remote selling methods both online and via their "shops".

What Argos said to me was that I couldn't return a laptop once I'd opened the package if home delivered - this part, at least, is plain wrong. This is exactly what the CCR rules state you can do.

I really wonder if Argos, possibly others, have lost it over CCR. My understanding of the law is that if they don't expressly state your rights under CCR the 14 days gets extended to a far longer period. I suppose eventually they will wind up in court as a test case.

R