Recommendations for Rust Removal Products?

Crabman

I'm looking to get rid of some rust on wheel arches on a family member's car. Can anyone recommend either of these products?

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Painting+Decorating/Metal+Paints+Primers/Rust+Converter+250ml/d150/sd3152/p43408

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Painting+Decorating/Metal+Paints+Primers/Rustins+Rust+Remover+125ml/d150/sd3152/p20340

I've used Kurust in the past but the rust keeps coming back. Hoping one of these may give a better result. If anyone has used either of these (or a different product) please post with your experiences.

facade

The second one is a rust remover, just an acid, most likely hydrochloric as it attacks zinc, and chlorides are soluble so a rinse with water will see the area clean.

The first one is supposed to convert existing rust and prevent new rusting, but as it is billed as "Environmentally friendly" I wouldn't hold out much hope.

Locktite do a latex based product that is similar, and doesn't work- I've tried it.

AdrianC

Crabman wrote: »

I'm looking to get rid of some rust on wheel arches on a family member's car.

I've used Kurust in the past but the rust keeps coming back.

Have you actually had the arch back to bare, shiny metal? If you have, you'll almost certainly have found holes in the steel - that's because the rust is coming from INSIDE. Probably there's seam sealer on the inside of the arch that's got breached, or simply damp mud clinging to the metal has rotted the inner skin out. It's a complex, multi-skinned area, that puts a LOT of the structural strength into the shell. Once water starts to get inside and between those skins, it's only coming one way - out. By the time you see bubbles under the paint, you're looking at the tip of the iceberg, and the only way to properly solve it is to cut the rotten metal out and weld new metal in.

Joe_Horner

The only permanent rust remover is an angle grinder and even that is rarely permanent outside of a controlled bodyshop environment.

Kurust, Rustins and most of the others are based on phosphoric acid, which converts iron oxide to iron phosphate. They'll work pretty well if the paint and rust is cleaned back to bare metal, then treated, then etch primed (don't trust the rust remover to do the etching) but only if the rust is surface rust from stone chips on the outside. If it's come from inside, or already got into the seams, or already perforated the panel then they won't penetrate to where the problem is.

You can usually slow it down a lot by treating and painting from the outside as well as possible then using a can of dinitrol (or similar wax) to coat the inside. Note that means the inside of the outer wing panel, not just inside the wheel arch. The wax carries a rust inhibitor with is and will creep pretty well into the seams to where it's needed.

Best access for spraying is by either removing the boot area trim or drilling access holes up through the inner arch if that doesn't work. Don't stint on the wax, drill a couple of holes in the bottom corners of the inner arch and spray till it starts to come out of them. Let it dry, then make sure those holes are clear to act as drains in future. Plug any holes you drill at the top of the arch (the wax suppliers can supply suitable plugs)

That won't stop it forever, but it'll slow it down for probably the life of the rest of the car.

force_ten

Crabman wrote: »

I've used Kurust in the past but the rust keeps coming back. Hoping one of these may give a better result. If anyone has used either of these (or a different product) please post with your experiences.

how are you using it, even if you take the arch back to bare metal treat with rust remedy fill and repaint is the way i would do it but even that is not really a permanent repair and over time the rust will creep back

only real permanent cure is a new wing or at the back a quarter panel and arch

JustinR1979

It's a cancer that needs cutting out, as said it will keep coming back

atrixblue.-MFR-.

Crabman lose all these expensive acids and use this simple one tip


WHITE VINIGAR!!! on a rag and rub it off, ive been doing this for years when painting a vehicle, to rid surface rust.


some more tips.


rub arch down to bare metal in the area, once finished, and your area is rubbed down (with a 32 grit paper), then move onto wiping the area generously with white vinegar, then with clean cloth rub all that !!!!!! away, there will be pits left, you could spend an hour more in rubbing them clean away with 32 grit or you could leave it.


tools and kit your going to need:
filler small tub with hardner
small sanding block.
medium and fine scotch cloths x2 packs of each.
32 grit paper 80 grit paper 120 grit paper 180 grit paper.
wetpaper 180 all the way to 2000.
black guide coat spray paint (any nasty cheap acrylic spray that's cheap)
lacquer
u-pol Epoxy primer any number (not etching primer)
colour match paint form bodyshop (forget alfords stuff a autobody paint supplies would be better and take the car or a panel to match for UV fade)


Once you have exposed the bare metal on the arches, take you r medium grade scotch cloth and rub and area of about 2 incheas round the metal exposed for a key to catch the paint, apply a thin layer of filler across the area don't play too much mix both harnder and filler well to one color, then fill the area of metal exposed, wait to dry fully, then start sanding with 80Grit once your down to a level where the snobs are flattened, take your 180 grit and start to flatten shape and feather out into the area, apply more filler if needed and repeat this process till you happy don't worry about exposed metal if you go through surround area.


once happy.


then apply your epoxy paint build up layers slowly but you need a good thick coat of it on there don't worry about runs (I leave it 20 mins for the epoxy to sink into the metal and seal it between coats then just build up to where you feel happy enough)


after you applied the last epoxy primer, and let it dry, take your black guide coat and apply it thinly over the area like a dusting of it, wait 5 mins for it to dry.


then with 120 grit start sanding the primer down using little pressure you don't want to bust through the primer, the black left in the primer is where the scratches are when you have sanded all the area, and see all those little strips of black where the scratech has been exposed you need to start rubbing them out like an eraser with 240 grit sandpaper and start on those.


once you have the primer level and all the exposed scrateches gone, you need to apply another layer of primer let dry.


with 240 wetndry get yourself a bucket with soapy water, and flatten off the primer ready for pain, don't forget to work the whole area, this time where your going to paint the arch, once flat, clean the area off, and start applying the paint, once you got it to a good stage and dry, apply your lacquer.

colino

Frankly unless you do body repairs a lot, don't do it. You can follow the instructions and hack away metal and pack in the gloop to your hearts content, but the final finish will always betray you, and frequently, looks worse than the rust and raises doubts about what else has been bodged.

droopsnoot

And as AdrianC said, on a wheelarch it's probably coming from the back anyway, so whatever you do will just come back unless you cut out the rusty metal and replace it with good stuff, and seal it properly on the inside.

There are lots of ways to remove rust - I've heard of vinegar being used, also citric acid and phosphoric acids work well, though they work better if you can soak the metal rather than just paint it on. Trouble is, as it's almost certainly coming from the back or panel edge where moisture has crept through a break in the rustproofing, it can take a lot of digging to find and fix the leak.

At best, without replacing the arch, you're going to slow down the process for a while, and a decent repair might at least allow the family member to trade the car out for something else.

Unless of course it's rusting from a scratch or stonechip on the outside of the panel.

bartelbe

As others have said, rust removers waste of time. I have repaired a classic car and learnt the lesson the hard way.

The only way to remove it is to sand it away, if it is bad flap diisk on a angle grinder does the trick. Be warned, you will make a mess and more than likely a hole.

Then you need a mig welder to patch the hole. If you don't have one your only options are basically bodges.

Bodge one, wire mesh and filler over hole. Waste of time, bodyfiller is like a sponge, it will hold water by the metal and make the rust worse.

Bodge two, fibre glass and filler. Fibre glass patch in wheel arch, if you can get it water tight it might work, but your problem here, is the patch match just come off.

Bodge three, wire mesh and chemical metal. Probably won't work, but it stands more chance than filler, because chemical metal is water resistant. More than likely water will get in round the edges anyway.

atrixblue.-MFR-.

Any chance of a few pics to see what were advising on so advice can be more accurate here crabman?