Postal Notification of Parking Charge

aleem321

hello guys. I am new to this site and trying to get max help to sort this matter. I have also posted the same matter in other forum.
Yesterday I received a letter from Parking Control Management Ltd.
My wife required to hand in a letter in college which took hardly 7 min for her to come back and I stayed in a car at all times waiting for her. The car was parked just outside the college with no yellow lines. There was a space of parking, only 3 to 4 cars could be parked in this road side which also has got a signage about Private Parking which is very hard to notice as it was not noticeable at all from an angle where the car was parked and also avoided parking on double yellow lines on the other side of the road and looked very much that this space is to park cars. About 3 min later a guy in a scruffy t shirt and jeans came and started taking photos of my car from his mobile phone, I was just thinking to myself why is he taking photos and then he went back of the car to take more photos. I asked him why the hell is he taking photos and he replied "you will know once you get a parking ticket, this parking is a private" I said to him he could have asked me to move the car but he did not reply and sat in his car which he had parked on the other side of the road. i simply started my car and came out of parking space and made a U turn and I stopped my car in the middle of the road and I came out to ask him to show his ID. He refused to show by saying "I am not obliged to show you any thing". During this my wife came out of college and we came home. Today I received a letter from PCM asking to pay £100 (reduced £60). The letter also states that the driver drove off before the ticket was issued. How the hell he could have issued a ticket from his mobile phone?
What I would like to know
Is it legal to start taking photos with the intentions of issuing ticket while the driver is in the car ?

Not allowing to post links to the images of signage and letter. How can i post images or links ??.

I feel it is totally unfair that I have been asked to pay as I was in the car. I would appreciate if any one can help me in this matter
Thanks. Aleem

Umkomaas

Is it legal to start taking photos with the intentions of issuing ticket while the driver is in the car ?

Afraid so! If that's your only question I presume it's now answered.

But ........... I guess you also want to know how to deal with your Parking Charge Notice (PCN)?

So, you need to do a bit of research by reading the NEWBIES sticky at the top of the forum index (one page back from here). This will provide everything you really need to deal with your problem, but you do need to spend some time reading it (possibly more tha once, and in bite sized chunks). It may look daunting, but at this stage you only need, as a belt and braces approach, to read post #1 (and links) about the initial appeal, and post #2, which helps you to decipher the myriad of acronyms you will need to get your head around.

If there's anything you don't understand, please feel free to come back on this thread to ask, but you do need to do some reading first, as the more you understand this stuff, the more you will be able to deal successfully with it.

HTH

aleem321

Umkomaas, I did try to go thru Newbies sticky and got myself confused. Reason is the Wordings of each case, eg BPA, POPLA etc. in my case the signage say IPC, so which appeal draft should i copy and send to PCM ? and also what extra comments / statements do i need to add in the 1st appeal ?
I am unable to post any image as I am newbie. Is there an other alternative to post images / links ?

Umkomaas

Same initial appeal as per the sticky post #1.

IPC is is different kettle of fish to BPA/POPLA, so ignore anything related to that axis.

To upload images, please host them on Photobucket/Tinypic (free hosting sites), then post the links here with http// changed to hxxp// and regulars will do the conversion. Let us see a copy of the on-site signage and both sides of the letter (Notice to Keeper - NtK), and any other correspondence received, as lots of PPCs foul up in their paperwork.

Coupon-mad

Yes please show us the signs (readable wording) and that letter (BOTH sides, everything visible except the PCN number and your car reg/name/address) and tell us the number of days in between the parking incident and when you received the letter yesterday.

aleem321

sorry for the delay, have been away from home. Here are the images. some of the photos I took later on and have marked where the car was, and some I have downloaded from PCM website.

hxxp://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/Signbrd_zps77e0dade.jpg.html

hxxp://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/Back_zps0d717b57.jpeg.html

hxxp://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/Front1_zpsbb69cd4b.jpeg.html

hxxp://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/Parkspace1A_zps6790fc65.jpg.html

hxxp://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/GetImage3Aasp_zpsde3e1ce4.jpg.html

hxxp://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/GetImageAasp_zps0fa60ae4.jpg.html

hxxp://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/Parkspace2A_zpsa7366634.jpg.html

Umkomaas

Clicky links:

http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/Signbrd_zps77e0dade.jpg.html

http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/Back_zps0d717b57.jpeg.html

http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/Front1_zpsbb69cd4b.jpeg.html

http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/Parkspace1A_zps6790fc65.jpg.html

http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/GetImage3Aasp_zpsde3e1ce4.jpg.html

http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/GetImageAasp_zps0fa60ae4.jpg.html

http://s1036.photobucket.com/user/aleem_1964m321/media/Parkspace2A_zpsa7366634.jpg.html

Guys_Dad

Was there a sign at the start of college way or earlier giving you notice that you were in a private parking area? What is the limit of area covered by that sign in the photos.

In other words, was there any other signage that warned you that you were entering a private parking area?

I don't know if you have noticed, but the vehicle ringed in red in the first picture is NOT the same vehicle ringed in the second picture and is not in the same place !! Seems to me the evidence is tainted, I appreciate it is your red ringing.

Umkomaas

Slam dunk! NtK states 'in breach of the parking area terms and conditions of use'. Therefore not a contractual agreement at all - GPEOL required please!

Have they stated how long the car was observed parked before an attempt was made to affix a ticket (grace period)?

Guys_Dad

Umkomaas wrote: »

Slam dunk! NtK states 'in breach of the parking area terms and conditions of use'. Therefore not a contractual agreement at all - GPEOL required please!

Have they stated how long the car was observed parked before an attempt was made to affix a ticket (grace period)?

The NtK also appears to fail the requirements of POFA and the IPC.

The IPC AOS guidelines state
"3. Notice to Keeper (Non-ANPR cases)
3.1 The Notice to the Keeper must;
(a) Be in writing.
(b) Specify the vehicle and the land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates.
(c) Inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full. "

There must be a period of parking specified, not just the date and their NtK fails. I agree, of course, with Umkomaas' point about the wording on the NtK being at odds with the sign. The point being if the NtK had read that you had failed to pay the contractual sum rather being in breach of the t&c, then that would have been a different proposition.

You will need to appeal on GPEOL based on that point and that any claim for breach of contract comes under liquidated damages and that they are not asking for the previously agreed parking charge they say you agreed to.

Flash up your appeal for others here to help you wih when you appeal to IPC.

Which college, by the way so I can check for entry signs on google earth?

Coupon-mad

The DVLA's position is that 'all vehicles should be ticketed where ANPR technology is not utilised' because this sort of postal PCN shows a 'lack of audit trail' (i.e. a random ticketer can't just take speculative pics from a distance of cars parked, which shows nothing at all really). There's a recent FOI about that, showing various PPC audits by the DVLA where certain PPCs were instructed by the DVLA to 'cease' this sort of postal ticket.

Also the lack of any windscreen ticket means the keeper who receives that postal version may NEVER have read the sign and can only go by what's on the NTK about 'breach of contract'.

Love the fact they have circled the wrong car in one photo - good spot, Guy's Dad.