Concerns about lodgers

TwistedPsycho

Evening Collective;

I am looking for a bit of advice on a house purchase we are having a problem with. Having agreed a sale and the vendor (who we have met) clearly said they wanted to proceed with good time.

Now though we are having concerns. There is a lodger and their partner who although the vendor has signed their Property Information Form saying that they will be out; were obstructive to our HomeBuyer surveyor (although the vendor claims to the contrary) by firstly refusing access, then refusing access to the room they were in - the vendor agreed to the survey and had nearly 2 weeks notice.

When we went for a supplementary visit to confirm certain aspects the surveyor could not check, we asked (and it was agreed) that the lodger and their companions were not present, citing the reason that they had previously been obstructive. On arrival, after a weeks notice, the vendor would not let us into three bedrooms as there were guests sleeping.

I have real concerns that although the vendor has signed the Property Information Form to say the lodger will be out at exchange; that this might occur and the lodgers are still there when we complete.

What can we do about this? Even if we go in the day before exchange and see vacant rooms, they might simply be conveniently out and be there when we get our keys? If this happens then the mortgage company could withdraw the mortgage and we would be in a wee bit of strife!

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Pixie5740

Does the vendor live in the property with the lodgers?

If these people truly are lodgers then the vendor will find it relatively easy to evict them. The vendor just has to give them reasonable notice to leave and can change the locks on them if necessary.

In your shoes I wouldn't be impressed about the obstruction caused. You told the vendor your like to view the property without the lodgers present but they were there, still obstructing things.

TwistedPsycho

From what we can see the vendor lives in the house.
I am not impressed and have made that clear to our solicitor.

As it is we have extended our property rental at the moment by a month to buffer the delay; but the landlord has now re-let from the revised move out date so a further extension is out of the question.

G_M

TwistedPsycho wrote: »

As it is we have extended our property rental at the moment by a month to buffer the delay; but the landlord has now re-let from the revised move out date so a further extension is out of the question.

Well he's a fool as you might not leave and then h'll be in breach of contract with the incoming tenants. However....

I woud not worry too much about the lodgers not leaving though as
a) it is for the seller to evict them and hand over 'vacant possession' on Completion. But just to be safe, go round the day before Completion (or in the morning) to check they are gone. If they are not, tell your solicitor not to Complete.

b) it is pretty easy to evict lodgers, unlike tenants (hence my comment about your landlord above!)

I'd be more worried about

c) the bits of the property you/your surveyor are being obstructed form viewing - perhaps it's a deliberate ploy to hide something?

d) the condition of the property - lodgers sound....... troublesome.

The condition at Completion should be the same as at Exchange of Contracts. Not 2 months earlier when you viewed..... So I'd also ask to view immediately before Exchange, ideally with a camera.

TwistedPsycho

Hi G_M,

The problem is that we have already said we will leave on that date and the landlord has accepted that as notice.

My intention is to insist on a visit the day before exchange to confirm the lodgers are out (which my solicitor has recommended) and the property cleared of rubbish (the garage is 75% full to roof). We would then refuse to exchange until this is in place.....

or is that wrong?

Would Exchange and Complete on the same day be the most logical option in this circumstance?

moneyistooshorttomention

One thought = do be sure you change the locks all round literally within the hour of moving in.

It is certainly the landlords responsibility to make sure those lodgers are gone and not yours. Thank goodness they are lodgers and not tenants. Stick to your guns that those lodgers MUST be gone by day of exchange at latest and demand to have a full look around the house at that point to check for yourselves that they have gone.

This may be just a case of the vendor trying to receive rental income for as long as possible and nothing worse than that, but as well to take precautions to protect yourself.

Pixie5740

TwistedPsycho wrote: »

Hi G_M,

The problem is that we have already said we will leave on that date and the landlord has accepted that as notice.

My intention is to insist on a visit the day before exchange to confirm the lodgers are out (which my solicitor has recommended) and the property cleared of rubbish (the garage is 75% full to roof). We would then refuse to exchange until this is in place.....

or is that wrong?

Would Exchange and Complete on the same day be the most logical option in this circumstance?

You've been a little bit silly giving notice to end your tenancy already. Does the vendor know that you've done this? Do you have somewhere else to move to if you can't exchange and complete within the timescale you've allowed yourself?

I ask because if the vendor knows that you'll be desperate because there's a possibility you might soon be homeless it puts you in a weaker position.

If the vendor doesn't know that you've already given notice on your current home then maybe it's time to get tough with them. Say that unless you can properly view the whole property, including the lodgers' bedrooms then you're going to start looking at other properties.

kaya

So don't buy it then, plenty more properties about where the seller will be more co-operative

TwistedPsycho

Good morning everyone, thank you for your thoughts.

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

One thought = do be sure you change the locks all round literally within the hour of moving in.

It is certainly the landlords responsibility to make sure those lodgers are gone and not yours. Thank goodness they are lodgers and not tenants. Stick to your guns that those lodgers MUST be gone by day of exchange at latest and demand to have a full look around the house at that point to check for yourselves that they have gone.

We are already planning to change the locks on the day of receiving the keys; because we essentially plan to have a week or two overlap with our rental to get the work we know (and accepted) would need doing such as re-decoration.

Ditto the house being vacant of lodgers at exchange.

Pixie5740 wrote: »

You've been a little bit silly giving notice to end your tenancy already. Does the vendor know that you've done this? Do you have somewhere else to move to if you can't exchange and complete within the timescale you've allowed yourself?

I ask because if the vendor knows that you'll be desperate because there's a possibility you might soon be homeless it puts you in a weaker position.

If the vendor doesn't know that you've already given notice on your current home then maybe it's time to get tough with them. Say that unless you can properly view the whole property, including the lodgers' bedrooms then you're going to start looking at other properties.

We gave notice because if there was a few weeks overrun then we have a plan B in place where we can stay with family nearby.

We thought that extending the AST to 1 month of PST on the rental was being thorough, especially as there is no chain on either side (the estate agent was adamant we would be completed within 6 weeks by this Friday from the outset; glad we did not believe that) but we have never had this issue before.

The only other house we bought in 2005 was much smoother, as well as when we sold it a few years ago.

kaya wrote: »

So don't buy it then, plenty more properties about where the seller will be more co-operative

That is just it, there are not in the areas we need to be. It was £25k under market because it needs some work doing and we do not have the extra deposit to afford the other properties which are currently visibly rising in value.

We were watching one that we missed as it had just been sold. When it fell through 6 weeks later it then went for £10k MORE within 3 days. It was only after the sale was agreed that I realised that I had a tenuous connection to the vendor to find out.

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TwistedPsycho

Good Morning Collective,

Apologies I am need of a bit more straight talking regarding our house purchase.

In terms of what we discussed above I have asked for a final "pre-exchange" viewing at which point if we are happy there has been no issues, that we exchange contracts. Our concerns are around these bits from before:

There is a lodger and their partner who although the vendor has signed their Property Information Form saying that they will be out; were obstructive to our HomeBuyer surveyor (although the vendor claims to the contrary) by firstly refusing access, then refusing access to the room they were in - the vendor agreed to the survey and had nearly 2 weeks notice.

When we went for a supplementary visit to confirm certain aspects the surveyor could not check, we asked (and it was agreed) that the lodger and their companions were not present, citing the reason that they had previously been obstructive. On arrival, after a weeks notice, the vendor would not let us into three bedrooms as there were guests sleeping.

I do not want to exchange knowing that the vendor was hiding something that would stop us proceeding. The vendor has told us that we have to wait a week to be able to do this, but their solicitor is now saying they want to exchange today.

Am I really that wrong for asking for this viewing before committing to exchange? In the last 10 weeks we have not tried to be difficult:

Viewing 1. Offered asking price on the spot.
HomeBuyer Survey.
Viewing 2. Only because surveyor was refused access to parts.
Viewing 3. Now asking for this viewing pre-exchange.

BJV

Unless it is the home of your dreams I would walk away. There are lots of properties for sale and sorry perhaps it is just me but when someone is deliberately obstructive it is normally because they have something to hide.