Gas Safe Certs and Part P's

coldfeet24

My son is about to purchase a house. He is almost at exchange of contracts stage but on receipt of the completed sellers questionnaire form thingy the seller was asked if the gas boiler newly installed in 2011 had a gas safe certificate for proof that it was installed by a registered installer and also asked if they had the certificate for the electrical re-wire which I understand to be a Part P certificate.

They didn't actually tick any of the boxes of "to follow", "enclosed" or "not known". The estate agent says there are no certificates. So have contacted gas safe and they have never been notified of a boiler installation at that address. Contacted Building Control and they have never had notification of electrical work as in complete re-wire. Estate agent is adamant certificates are not required for the seller to sell the house, well no, but how is my son supposed to know if this work has been carried out by competent persons. Everyone seems to be trivialising this and saying it doesn't matter, its the buyers responsibility etc, etc but my son cannot afford to put right any work that may have been done incorrectly or even outside of the law once he's bought it and moved in and he is constantly being pushed by the estate agent to sign the contract. He doesn't want to lose the house but........any ideas?

My sons conveyancer picked up on it and wrote to vendors solicitor asking about certificates. That was about 4 weeks ago and the solicitor has still not replied. However the vendors solicitor has contacted the estate agent and asked them about certificates and appears to have left it to the agent to sort out (ie persuade son it doesn't matter, just sign the contract).

martin.cat

The problem with surveys and certs is that everyone wants to !!!! cover.

If no certs are provided the vender will need to pay for indemnity insurance.

You could also get inspection / tests done

coldfeet24

It's a very long time since I bought a house, lived in the same one for the last 26 years, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance. What is the indemnity insurance for and who will be insured, the vendor?

The Gas Safe certificates are automatically issued if a registered gas safe fitter fits the boiler, that is what is worrying, they are the only people allowed to fit gas boilers so why no certificate or more to the point why does the Gas Safe register have no record. But yes could get gas checked out for around £60 but the electrics, no idea how much.

G_M

If your son is worried that either the boiler or the electrics might be in poor condition, dangerous or otherwise of concern, and the seller has neither installation or service history his options are

* walk away from the property
* pay for a gasSafe engineer's report and NICEIC electrical report
* ask the seller to pay for the above reports (which they may or may not agree to do)
* buy the property as is

martin.cat

The I indemnity will cover any problems if the boiler was unsafe not installed etc. it's peace of mind and again covers !!!!!!.

I got a friend who is a plumber to fit mine as I know his work is a1. However he couldn't provide a completion cert as the company he worked for didn't allow them to register jobs that weren't through them. He did however give me a gas safe cert through another registered plumber however this and the fact that the boiler has been serviced by BG since wasn't enough so we had to pay £50 for indemnity.

As for the electrics Part P is over rated in my opinion. Yes some DIY persons do shocking jobs but some part p people are just as bad. Part P allows jobs to be registered without verification other than by the installer. So basically a rubbish installer can register rubbish jobs. Obviously not all are the same but a lot of people go for cheapest job not knowing the real difference in price

Before any one shoots my down I am an electrical engineer with with CG2391 etc and work in an industrial field rather than domestic

G_M

martin.cat wrote: »

The I indemnity will cover any problems if the boiler was unsafe not installed etc. it's peace of mind and again covers !!!!!!.

Before any one shoots my down I am an electrical engineer with with CG2391 etc and work in an industrial field rather than domestic

Although an electrical engineer, not gas, I'm surprised you make the above assertion about indemnity.

Indemnity insurance will not cover problems with the boiler, or safety issues. It will NOT pay out if the boiler stops working, blows up, or gasses occupants with CO.

All it will do is provide compensation in the (almost impossibly unlikely) event of the local council's Building Control dept enforcing Building regulations and demands that the boiler be removed, or re-installed to comply with the regulations.

martin.cat

Just passed on what solicitor said .. It's peace of mind for buyer

Why would council enforce? Because it is unsafe, not installed correctly etc

You can't guarantee any boiler won't stop working

But a peace of paper is a 100% guarantee?

unclebulgaria

coldfeet24 wrote: »

It's a very long time since I bought a house, lived in the same one for the last 26 years, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance. What is the indemnity insurance for and who will be insured, the vendor?

The Gas Safe certificates are automatically issued if a registered gas safe fitter fits the boiler, that is what is worrying, they are the only people allowed to fit gas boilers so why no certificate or more to the point why does the Gas Safe register have no record.

Because people know a bloke who will install a boiler for them for cash in hand. He probably won't be independantly registered with Gas Safe as he works for a company and doesn't have his own insurance or personal registration. That means he did it illegally and can't register it, he then gets his mate who does work for himself to sign it off for him for a few quid. He won't register it because he'll have to take responsibility for it.

G_M

martin.cat wrote: »

Just passed on what solicitor said .. It's peace of mind for buyer

Why would council enforce? Because it is unsafe, not installed correctly etc

You can't guarantee any boiler won't stop working

But a peace of paper is a 100% guarantee?

How on earth is the Building Control dept going to know anything about the boiler? And even if they find out:

action (under section 35 of the Building Act 1984) will usually be taken against the builder or main contractor, and proceedings must be taken within two years from the completion of the work.

These indemnity policies are pointless except

* money in the pocket of the insurance company (have they ever paid out on one?)
* commission to the solicitors selling the policy
* futile box-ticking by mortgage lenders who often insist on them.

But yes - the valid point you make is

can't guarantee any boiler won't stop working

. Best guarantee is a recent inspection, not a 3 year old installation certificate.

martin.cat

G_M wrote: »

How on earth is the Building Control dept going to know anything about the boiler? And even if they find out:
These indemnity policies are pointless except

* money in the pocket of the insurance company (have they ever paid out on one?)
* commission to the solicitors selling the policy
* futile box-ticking by mortgage lenders who often insist on them.

But yes - the valid point you make is . Best guarantee is a recent inspection, not a 3 year old installation certificate.

Agree its all !!!! covering

On my purchase I knew it was an old boiler and I planned to replace but it had to work and see me through winter so I got it checked out.
On my sale i had to take out indemnity but for me it was in tip top condition with full service history.
I then think back to the sale of my neighbours. Even I knew the boiler was on last legs as BG were out several time over the winter before it was sold. Then sure enough new neighbour had to replace 6 weeks in. No certs or indemnity was required as it was old boiler.

For me it's a case of buyer beware and do your homework. Paperwork is just part of the picture.

anselld

Indemnity Insurance is probably not an option for the OP as they have already contacted Building Control and made enquiries.