Meteor PCN Railway Station

fuziduck

Many thanks Coup! It doesn't even look like Meteor looked at my appeal, if this is the case, and they know their points don't win, why bother taking it to POPLA as that costs them more, they should have just cancelled it at the first stage!


How long does it generally take for POPLA to decide the appeal, is there a timeline now that I technically have to rebut the evidence, or will POPLA just look at it as and when?

Coupon-mad

Maybe a week or two now - a nice Christmas pressie for you if POPLA deal with it before their annual Xmas break!

fuziduck

Thanks to everyone in this thread who contributed, particularly Coupon-mad for helping my appeal. Just been informed my appeal has been allowed against Meteor (Vinci Park) at Dorking Railway Station (Southern). Unfortunately it didn't quite make it in time for Xmas, but none the less, a very good New Year present

CM do you take donations for a coffee etc?

The Operator issued parking charge notice number ********** arising out of the presence at Dorking Station, on 18 September 2014, of a vehicle with registration mark ****.
The Appellant appealed against liability for the parking charge. The Assessor has considered the evidence of both parties and has
determined that the appeal be allowed.
The Assessor’s reasons are as set out.
The Operator should now cancel the parking charge notice forthwith.

Reasons for the Assessor’s Determination
It is not in dispute that the appellant’s vehicle was parked on the site, and that a parking charge notice was issued after the operator’s employee observed the vehicle and concluded that it was parked so as to cause obstruction and/or inconvenience to others.
The appellant made a number of representations. However, it is only necessary to deal with the one upon which I am allowing the appeal, that the operator lacks the authority to issue and enforce parking charge notices in respect of the land.
The operator rejected these representations. On the question of authority, the operator appears to have made no statement but must be assumed to state that they had authority from the landowner for their activities.
Considering the evidence before me, I find that the operator has not provided any evidence that they have authority from the landowner to issue and enforce parking charge notices in respect of the site. The operator’s implied assertion to that effect is insufficient to show that any authority has been granted. Accordingly, I cannot find that the operator had sufficient rights in the land to enter into contracts in respect of it. Therefore the parking charge notice cannot be held to be validly issued. In the light of this, I am not required to consider the other issues raised by the appellant.
Accordingly, the appeal must be allowed.

Christopher Monk
Assessor

Umkomaas

Christopher Monk seems to have his head around this and is not prepared to accept PPC 'assurances' without seeing hard evidence.

Contrast this with many of the IAS decisions around this appeal point - and had this been an appeal to the IAS it would have undoubtedly LOST!

Well done OP.

Redx

fuziduck wrote: »

Thanks to everyone in this thread who contributed, particularly Coupon-mad for helping my appeal. Just been informed my appeal has been allowed against Meteor (Vinci Park) at Dorking Railway Station (Southern). Unfortunately it didn't quite make it in time for Xmas, but none the less, a very good New Year present

CM do you take donations for a coffee etc?

here, read this , https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5127960

garethuk1981

Guys,

Got one yesterday from Meteor for basically parking outside a parking bay area. To be honest i should have known, but as i was in a rush, i saw a car parked in the opposite direction and it looked i was parking opposite to a legitimate parked car :-( - However when returning later I found parking charge notices on both mine and his/hers. I previously paid an hour before travelling for my space at this car park, so they received the money for the day parking in advance to me leaving and noticing that there was no legitimate parking bays available (except for the one i thought i was parking in, which turned out not to be).

Anyway, i sent them this appeal letter today. what do you think my chances are? / next actions?

For some reason it wont let me upload the scanned image of the parking ticket (asks for a URL, rather than an image location on my laptop).

Meteor Parking Ltd – PCN number ******* - Reg: ********

I have received your parking 'invoice' impersonating a parking ticket. I decline your invitation to pay or name the driver, neither of which are required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. This is my appeal and all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

I. The amount is neither a genuine tariff/fee for parking, nor is it based upon any genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.

II. You’re not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts to drivers nor to bring a claim in your own right.

III. Your signage was not sufficiently prominent nor clearly worded and consideration did not flow from both parties, so there was no contract formed. This is a non-negotiated and totally unexpected third party 'charge' foisted upon legitimate motorists who are not your customers, therefore it is required to beso prominent that it must have been seen/accepted by the driver. No reasonable person would have accepted such onerous parking terms and I contend the extortionate charge was not 'drawn to his attention in the most explicit way' (Lord Denning, Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking Ltd [1971] 2 QB 163, Court of Appeal): 'The customer is bound by those terms as long as they are sufficiently brought to his notice beforehand, but not otherwise. In {ticket cases of former times} the issue...was regarded as an offer by the company. That theory was, of course, a fiction. No customer in a thousand ever read the conditions. In order to give sufficient notice, it would need to be printed in red ink with red hand pointing to it - or something equally startling.'

As you have failed to create any enforceable contract I suggest that you cancel this unjustified 'ticket’. If not, under your Trade Body's current Code of Practice you must issue a rejection letter which, in order to answer my appeal, must include:

1. The legal basis of your charge, which is not clear (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.

(i) if alleging breach of contract, please supply a breakdown of your alleged 'loss' and state the intention of your enforcement (i.e. deterrent or revenue?).

(ii) if alleging trespass, enclose evidence of the perpetrator, proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum by the landholder.

(iii) if alleging 'contractual fee' I request a VAT invoice by return and your explanation of how you can allow drivers to park 'in breach' for a fee when your client originally contracted you in order to disallow and deter - not allow and profit from - unauthorized parking.

I contend this charge is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC in the case of Civil Enforcement vMcCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014 Appeal). There is clearly no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.

2. Proof of your contracts to drivers at this site and to bring a claim in your own right for this particular contravention. If you are not the landowner, I will need to see a copy of your contract, showing the restrictions, the charges, the dates and terms of business including any payments between yourself and your client and the definition of your status as agents or contractors and your assigned rights (if any). Such detail is necessary for me to make an informed decision. Failure to divulge your landowner contract (or heavily redacting it) will be deemed as withholding pertinent information and, of course, I will require it to be shown at independent appeal stage anyway. A witness statement will not suffice, nor a site agreement with a managing agent or other party who is not the landowner.

3. Your explanation of the consideration that you believe flowed from the driver, and from yourselves. Consideration from both sides is required for a contract.

4. A copy of the signage sitemap and close-up pictures of the signs in situ at the time, taken at comparable time of day in similar light conditions.

5. The means to make an appeal to POPLA. This must not be withheld or delayed, which would be a breach of the Code of Practice.

If you fail to simply cancel the charge or supply the means to independent appeal in your first reply you will also be reported to BPA and the DVLA. Certificate of posting will be obtained for all written communications for this appeal and complaint and I intend to claim my costs when I prevail.

Yours sincerely

G Evans.

Coupon-mad

what do you think my chances are? / next actions?

You will win at POPLA but you do need your own thread - not this one!