Mum's dog bit my LO

Nicki

@person one. So what? As far as the child is concerned they have suffered a painful consequence to an accident on their part. And are possibly also being "blamed" by the parent for not reading the dogs signals properly or hurting the dog first.

I was bitten multiple times as a child by a family dog as was my sister so I know from first hand experience how it feels to be on eggshells in the family home with a dog who can fly off the handle for no obvious reason (to the child). We both have small scars as adults resulting from attacks. My sister now hates dogs and I actually quite like them if properly trained but have zero tolerance for aggressive dogs.

Person_one

Nicki wrote: »

@person one. So what? As far as the child is concerned they have suffered a painful consequence to an accident on their part. And are possibly also being "blamed" by the parent for not reading the dogs signals properly or hurting the dog first.

I was bitten multiple times as a child by a family dog as was my sister so I know from first hand experience how it feels to be on eggshells in the family home with a dog who can fly off the handle for no obvious reason (to the child). We both have small scars as adults resulting from attacks. My sister now hates dogs and I actually quite like them if properly trained but have zero tolerance for aggressive dogs.

Nobody blames the child unless there was a deliberate action, you're taking it too personally, and your 'what if I smacked your kid across the face' was just ridiculous. The very definition of a straw man argument.

The adults in your family failed in their duties both to you and to the dog. I grew up with dogs all around and it was nothing but wholly positive for me, which is the case for loads of children and families.

krlyr

Nicki wrote: »

It is mad in my opinion how people value their dogs over their children. It is ok for a dog to bite a child who accidentally steps on his tail for example. Would it be equally ok for me as a human to smack your child hard round the face (without breaking their skin) if they accidentally stepped on my toe then?

I don't see anyone condoning a dog bite, but saying there is a reason for it. A dog that has snapped out of pain has a reason - and many, many dogs could do this at any point, despite a previously great history with people/children. To judge a dog on a particularly fraction in time is ridiculous, as any dog in the world could be capable of that reaction - you might as well suggest every pet be euthanised, because they have the potential to act out of sorts on at least one occasion in their lives.

Your comparison is not a fair one at all. I don't think smacking a child around their face would be a particularly normal reaction to them stepping on your toe - you might push them off of your foot with a bit more force than you would normally find acceptable though. Or you might yank a child by the harm to the point of injury if they were about to run into a road, or smack their arm and leave a mark if you saw them about to put their hand on something hot or sharp.
Those are instinctive moves, made without any thought or intention, like a dog snapping at whatever just hurt it without even thinking about what it's doing. and as Person_One says, that is us reacting with our superior brain power to a dog - you can hardly expect them to rationalise as much as a human being.

yorkshire_terrier_owner

Dogs absolutely are pack animals. It was the dominant pack leader theory that was disproved, and the problem with the research was that the pack of wolves they observed were stranger animals thrown together not an established pack who we now know exist on a somewhat more equal footing. The research fed the dominance method of training, which is now widely discredited. Modern reward based training still has it's roots in the 'pack'.

My dogs are utter softies (because that is how I have TRAINED them), but I still would NEVER put them together with children because a) I CANNOT guarantee that they won't bite and b) they are small toy breeds and I cannot guarantee how they will be treated by a child.

With regard to bite inhibition, this is widely researched, and if the dog wanted to break the skin, it absolutely would have. Dogs RARELY bite unprovoked - it is more likely the OP is just not aware of what the 'provocation' was, and it may have been entirely innocent, but the dog reacts due to is past history.

Dog is not walked - unacceptable. If I'm ill, I employ a dog walker. Dog is throwing itself against the door when locked away - unacceptable. Dog has a problem that needs dealing with. Dog needs to be locked away when children are present - yes, I do this when I have children visiting, except that mine are not 'locked away' but rather put in a safe place where they and the visiting children do not have access to each other. For this I use a strong very large puppy pen that my dogs have been TRAINED to be in so they do not see it as punishment, but a safe place. They can relax, but are still involved.

Other behaviours in dogs are often misinterpreted as aggression. Pain and fear can manifest as aggressive type behaviour. Has dog been checked by a vet??

I absolutely agree that the child in question should be kept away from the dog until some resolution can be found, but this sounds like a dog who needs some TLC and training. Unfortunately, it's a sad fact that dogs with bite histories such as the one described here, end up in rescue, which then makes it difficult to rehome and the dog ends up PTS. Many dogs with bite histories can be rehabilitated. It is a sad situation that the owner is ill to the extent that it is affecting their ability to properly and adequately care for the dog, but the needs of the dog should also be important, alongside the safety of the children.

catkins

sulphate wrote: »

The example that tesuhoha mentioned is of a mother with young children. It's hardly fair to keep the dog locked in a crate the majority of the time. I agree it's feasible for occasional visitors.

I don't agree with the undertones in some posts I've read on here that a child must have provoked the a dog in order for it to attack. I suppose this baby provoked the dog too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-26878061

We are talking about this particular case aren't we? So if the OP doesn't visit that often the dog can go in a crate.


Of course I would never suggest a dog was crated the majority of the time

Nicki

There have been several posts on this thread alone questioning what the child did to make the dog bite him when from personal experience it doesn't work that way.

Our family dog for example flew at me once as the smallest person in the room because it was agitated by my father and brother cheering while watching a football match. A neighbour's dog used to bar the pavement outside my home (nowhere near their home) and snarl and growl at me preventing me passing him to go to and from school. That same dog jumped through a pane glass window to attack someone walking past their house on the public pavement.

Dogs need to be trained not to attack humans. I don't see why that is or should be controversial. If they can't be trained to be safe it isn't fair on everyone who comes into contact with them who is not their doting owner to be either frightened or hurt by them.

catkins

BarryBlue wrote: »

I don't really see that there is an issue here. The OP has to do what's best to protect her child. Clearly it is right that she does not take the child into the house where the dog is. The child is likely to be terrified anyway. If the OP's mother will not get the dog destroyed, which is what should happen, then she cannot expect her grandchild to be brought to her house.

As a parent myself, that would be my stand on the issue and I would not budge. Your children come way before any animals in your priorities and anyone who cannot understand that is probably not a parent. The choice is with the dog owner, unless of course the dog is reported and action taken independently to deal with the dog.

All they have to do is make sure the dog and the child are NOT together either by putting the dog in a secure room or a crate. Is it that difficult to understand?


No way should the dog be destroyed

janeywoo1978 wrote: »

If it can't be around people or children without biting , it should be destroyed. What if it was your LO's face or a baby?????? Your mum is selfish!!!!!

No she is not selfish. No children live there permanently. I wonder just how often children do visit? It is simple enough to keep the dog away from any visiting children.

Nicki wrote: »

I agree sulphate. Dogs are pack animals. What kind of crazy messages do they get about their place in their pack if they just need to give off a few "signals" and the child in the family has to back down and become submissive to avoid being attacked! And how does this help temper the dogs natural instincts long term?

The brutal fact is that if a dog cannot be trained not to attack humans be they children or adults, the correct thing to do is to put the animal to sleep. It may not be the animals fault if it has been ill treated in the past but nonetheless it cannot and should not be allowed to continue to terrorise humans until it dies a natural death.

Terrorise humans! God some of the posters on here really like to dramatise things don't they

sulphate

Quizzical_Squirrel wrote: »

For now, why can't the OP go to the house, leaving the child in the car.
If the dog is out, put away the dog.
Get child from car and go in.

Because that will then start a MSE debate on if it's acceptable to leave a child in a car for that length of time :rotfl:

yorkshire_terrier_owner

The biggest problem is that we tend to humanise dogs. They do not think in the same way, rationalise as we do or react as we do. A traumatic event earlier in its life can cause a dog to react in a way we as humans cannot understand.

Understanding canine psychology can prevent and rehabilitate many behaviour problems seen in dogs.

catkins

Nicki wrote: »

There have been several posts on this thread alone questioning what the child did to make the dog bite him when from personal experience it doesn't work that way.

Our family dog for example flew at me once as the smallest person in the room because it was agitated by my father and brother cheering while watching a football match. A neighbour's dog used to bar the pavement outside my home (nowhere near their home) and snarl and growl at me preventing me passing him to go to and from school. That same dog jumped through a pane glass window to attack someone walking past their house on the public pavement.

Dogs need to be trained not to attack humans. I don't see why that is or should be controversial. If they can't be trained to be safe it isn't fair on everyone who comes into contact with them who is not their doting owner to be either frightened or hurt by them.

Silly statement to make. The vast majority of dogs NEVER bite anyone but not because they have been trained not to.