Over charging solicitors

BJSJ12

Good evening all,

I hope that this is posted in the correct forum (sorry if not!)

I am hoping someone can offer some advice with our issue, here goes ....
We have recently purchased our first house which all seemed to go well up until the final few days. We took advice off the estate agent that we purchased through and used the solicitors they recommended, I received my quote of roughly £3100 which included £1900 stamp duty. I accepted this price over the phone after receiving calls from the solicitors on a daily basis whilst I was on holiday. We had planned to sort it once we had returned and obtain a few other quotes but this solicitors firm and the estate agent informed me that we really needed to get an agreement in place ASAP and that we shouldn't wait until after the short break.
We had arranged to complete on Friday 12th of September (we transferred our funds over on weds 3rd sept) On the morning of the 11th we were informed that we will need to exchange and complete on the same day due to complications up the chain and that this would cost us an extra £325 to do so. At this point we went back to the estate agent for help, who then spoke to the solicitors and got this fee waived.
Late Thursday afternoon we received an email asking us to pay the final bill which still came in at nearly £600 over the original quote, we paid this as we wanted the move to go ahead. On the Friday morning we went back to the estate agent to make them aware of the situation as it was them who recommended the firm to us and who gave the firm our contact details.
After speaking to the owner of the estate agents this afternoon he was upset to hear that we had not had a call from the solicitors who had agreed with him to reduce our bill down to something more realistic, instead I have today received an email informing me that the stamp duty was missed off the bill (no problem with paying this) and that they had missed off something else which Is now going to cost us a further £95.
Basically our original quote was roughly £3100, after everything has been added this is now pushing £3900, how are firms allowed to do this?
Please Can anyone offer any advice on this situation ?

BJSJ12

After a bit of advice this evening it seems we have massively over paid... The question now is - What if anything can be done about it?

G_M

BJSJ12 wrote: »

We took advice off the estate agent that we purchased through and used the solicitors they recommended,
1st mistake
I received my quote of roughly £3100 which included £1900 stamp duty.
did you see a full breakdown? Did you check the Terms of Business for any 'extras' or excluded items? 2nd mistake
I accepted this price over the phone after receiving calls from the solicitors on a daily basis whilst I was on holiday. We had planned to sort it once we had returned and obtain a few other quotes but this solicitors firm and the estate agent informed me that we really needed to get an agreement in place ASAP and that we shouldn't wait until after the short break.
:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

In other words you caved in to their sales pressure. 3rd mistake.

We had arranged to complete on Friday 12th of September (we transferred our funds over on weds 3rd sept)
Based on an Exchange date of ????? You cannot discuss a Completion date in isolation from Exchange

On the morning of the 11th we were informed that we will need to exchange and complete on the same day
Had it not occurred to you that, since you had not yet Exchanged, either Exchange/Completion would have to be same day, or Completion be delayed?
due to complications up the chain and that this would cost us an extra £325 to do so.
Presumably this was written into the Terms Of Business that you did not read? Have you checked?

At this point we went back to the estate agent for help, who then spoke to the solicitors and got this fee waived.
You genuinely surprise me - you were lucky

Late Thursday afternoon we received an email asking us to pay the final bill which still came in at nearly £600 over the original quote,
I assume you have analysed the bill. So what are the extra items that have increased the price?

we paid this as we wanted the move to go ahead. On the Friday morning we went back to the estate agent to make them aware of the situation as it was them who recommended the firm to us and who gave the firm our contact details.
You agreed to use these solicitors. The contract is between you and your solicitors. The fact that the EA 'recommended' them is irrelevant. The soliciors fees are a matter between them and you.

After speaking to the owner of the estate agents this afternoon he was upset to hear that we had not had a call from the solicitors who had agreed with him to reduce our bill down to something more realistic, instead I have today received an email informing me that the stamp duty was missed off the bill (no problem with paying this) and that they had missed off something else which Is now going to cost us a further £95.
If SDLT was omitted, it will need to be added and paid. Probobly the 'something else' too though since you are being vague I cannot comment!

Basically our original quote was roughly £3100, after everything has been added this is now pushing £3900, how are firms allowed to do this?
Yhey are allowed to do this if the extra costs are either listed in their quote/Terms of Business, or are disbursements which they had to pay on your behalf.
Please Can anyone offer any advice on this situation ?

You will need to examine each item on the final bill.

You will need to examine the original quote, and the Terms of Business.

You will need to compare the two, and see if you are being charged for things wrongly.

It is impossible for us to advise unless you tell us how/why the final bill differs from the quote.

Bear in mind that no solicitor cann quote precisely in advance. Until work starts on the conveyancing he does not know what 'disbursements' he will have to pay on your behalf. Some he can anticipate, but not all.

One reason this may turn out to be an expensive conveyancing fee is that you will, in one way or another, be paying the 'commission' that the solicitor pays the estate agent for the 'client introduction'.

Argghhh

each time i have bought/sold a house its been a fee plus searches + any extra disbursements necessary. There is always the chance that you hit a wall like requiring indemnity insurances and sorting disputes out and confirming boundaries etc- more work = more charges from solicitor to you. Every phone call they make or receive from you and every letter they send = £25 on your bill - soon mounts up

G_M

Argghhh wrote: »

each time i have bought/sold a house its been a fee plus searches + any extra disbursements necessary. There is always the chance that you hit a wall like requiring indemnity insurances and sorting disputes out and confirming boundaries etc- more work = more charges from solicitor to you. Every phone call they make or receive from you and every letter they send = £25 on your bill - soon mounts up

Often not that simple. Many conveyancers will charge extra for one or more of

* same day Exchange/Completion
* completing the SDLT submission
* indemnity insurance
* photocopying
* acting for mortgage lender
* undertaking lease enquiries/dealing with lease
* etc etc

These items may not be in the original quote but may be in the TOB.

And that's in addition to any disbursements which may be optional, or aditional to those quoted

McKneff

There is no such thing as a 'rough' quote. A quote is a quote and cannot be changed for what is actually listed.


There is such a thing as a 'rough' estimate.


Big difference.

G_M

McKneff wrote: »

There is no such thing as a 'rough' quote. A quote is a quote and cannot be changed for what is actually listed.


There is such a thing as a 'rough' estimate.


Big difference.

OP said

I received my quote of roughly £3100

and may have meant "I can't remember the exact quote I received as I don't have it in front of me but.....". So maybe the quote was exactly £3100.22.

But whatever. The reality is that whatever quote a buyer (and to a lesser extent, seller) originally receives from a conveyancer, it is very common for the final bill to show a different figure.

The question is, is the variance justified and why?

BJSJ12

G_M, I appreciate that you may be an expert in this field, we were clearly first time buyers with little to no experience so please do not mock us for that.
Ultimately, the lessons have been learned this time the hard way and we will not make the same mistake next time. Like you say this firm are probably in the right legally but I know of no other industry where a final bill would be allowed to spiral a third or more over the original estimate?
Naively, yes we were bullied into agreeing to use this firm, I was away at the time and had planned to obtain several quotes on my return but I put my trust in my estate agent and I stupidly thought that all solicitors would be around the same cost (within a couple of hundred pounds).
I understand that things can change and that they would not have been able to give a quote but you would expect to be notified if they had come up against problems requiring the bill to be increased?
Is £1945 the going rate to buy a house? It seems a lot to me when I ask around, the solicitor one up the chain was shocked when her clients told her what we had paid.

BJSJ12

Regarding the estimate, yes it was an estimate but it was only called an estimate when it was sent as an email. This followed several calls from the firm (whilst I was away). In the end I gave in and gave them the go ahead and paid the deposit there and then over the phone.... I then received the email with it being called an estimate.

From the estimate I quote this

'Competitive Legal Fees - No Hidden Charges
The legal fees quoted are amongst the most competitive in the market. Our Property Lawyers provide complete transparency with their cost structures and hence there are no hidden charges.'

This is simply not true.

TBagpuss

Did you use an actual solicitor, or was it a conveyancing firm?

If it was a solicitor, then ypou should have recieved a formal client care letter at the outset, which should include details of the costs and of whether and in what circumstances these may change.

The letter should alo set out the firm's complaints process and you can use this now, to complain that the bill was significantly higher than the quote and that you were not kept informed about this as you went along.

If the firm does not respond then you can, once you have exhausted their internal complaints procedure, escalate the complkaint to the legal ombudsman. heir detials should have been provided to you in your solicitors client care letter or on their website but if not, google them!

If the firm you used were not in fact solicitors then you will need to check to see what they are and who their regulator is. If they are licences conveyancers then they are regulated by the CLC http://www.conveyancer.org.uk/.

Your client care letter or the website for the firm should provide details of both who they are regulated by and what their own internal complaints procedure is.

Even if you cannot find that information, then it is still worth making a formal, writen complaint. Keep your letter as businesslike as you can, set out what the original wquote was, what the extra coss were and when you were informed of them, and whether you were warned at any point that there might be additional costsd.

By all means quote their advertising and point out that it is not accurate.

Be clear in your letter what you want them to do to resolve this - e.g. if you have paid £3900 against an initial quote of £3100 and want them to refund £800, say so.

Costs for vconveyancing do vary depending on the local area, the cost of the property and how complex it is. Round here,if you were buying a property for up to £200K, you would expect to pay legal fees of about £700, plus VAT. Searches are approx. £300 and Land Registry fees £95-£190 if the solicitor is completing the stamp duty return then that will add another £35-£40.

Stamp Duty is of course a tax you pay, the solicitor is only passing it on to the tax man for you, but if you add that in then £3,100 including everything is not unreasonable, but it is reasonable for you to ask what the extra £800 related to and why you were not given better information about this at the outset.

Were your conveyancers supposed to be working on a fixed fee? if they were working on an hourly rate then the costs can add up very fast as you py for each phone call, e-mail and letter, whterh to/from you or to third parties, but it';s relatively unusual for conveyancing to be done on an hourly rate.

It's obviouslytoo late for this purchase, but for future reference it is generally a bad idea to go with the estate agents recommendation, as there may well be a commission paid for the referral. It is generally best to go with a local solicitor (not a call-centre or conveyancing factory) ideally on personal recommendation, but if not, ask around, speak to several local solicitors and get quotes.

G_M

BJSJ12 wrote: »

From the estimate I quote this

'Competitive Legal Fees - No Hidden Charges
The legal fees quoted are amongst the most competitive in the market. Our Property Lawyers provide complete transparency with their cost structures and hence there are no hidden charges.'

This is simply not true.

This certainly strengthens your hand. Any 'hidden' extras could be argued to be in contravention of the headline statement and thus unfair.

However, I repeat, until you examine the final bill breakdown in detail to see where and why it has increased it is imposible o comment.

It's like a new car warranty. You get 3 years cover, but it does not cover everything (eg replacement tyres).

If you post on an internet forum and say "I've had to spend £400 at my gararge on my 1 year old car. This seems unfair as I have a 3 year warranty. What can I do?" noone cn advise.

you'd have to tell us what the £400 was for!