Economists Urge Scotland to Vote No......

ruggedtoast

padington wrote: »

That's where you're wrong, they are fast approaching the most actively supported political party in the UK. Cameron's rant about stopping Scotland vote on English decisions the day after the referendum was a colossal fail. That should have been the time to pay respect to the people that voted SNP and assure them that Scotland would always play a very significant role in our future.

He chose selfish political gain in England over the well being of Britain. It was a School boy error, with very real repercussions for possibly many years to come.

Actively supporting, and someone paying £12 to carry an SNP card around in their wallet for a year because they are angry they were outvoted in a referendum isn't the same thing.

I don't care much now anyway. Its up to the people in Scotland to vote for the politicians they want to represent them in Westminster. I suspect the biggest problem the SNP will have is that if they do clean up in May, they'll have added a lot of supporters to their ranks who don't want independence and wouldn't vote for it in a month of Sundays.

Personally I wouldnt vote for the Union in one referendum then elect a party that would I ensure I will be marginalised inside it for a generation in the next election. But as I said, thats their lookout.

padington

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Actively supporting, and someone paying £12 to carry an SNP card around in their wallet for a year because they are angry they were outvoted in a referendum isn't the same thing.

I don't care much now anyway. Its up to the people in Scotland to vote for the politicians they want to represent them in Westminster. I suspect the biggest problem the SNP will have is that if they do clean up in May, they'll have added a lot of supporters to their ranks who don't want independence and wouldn't vote for it in a month of Sundays.

Personally I wouldnt vote for the Union in one referendum then elect a party that would I ensure I will be marginalised inside it for a generation in the next election. But as I said, thats their lookout.

You can't have any SNP affiliated friends on facebook, believe me, they are active. :eek:

chewmylegoff

padington wrote: »

You can't have any SNP affiliated friends on facebook, believe me, they are active. :eek:

This is the precise reason the block button was invented!

Generali

Shakethedisease wrote: »

No point blaming the messenger.

I don't blame the messenger, I call the messenger wrong which of course she has been quite a few times.

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Join us all in 2015, where no-one knows what will happen in May why don't you. A land where the Telegraph, the Guardian and the FT are all kite flying about a Labour/Tory grand coalition... rather than let an SNP/Plaid/Greens alliance anywhere near Westminster. Even if the seat numbers, thus the voters themselves, wish it so ? Democratically ?

Correct, nobody knows what will happen. You are, of course, convinced that all outcomes in the General Election will be positive for the SNP. I have merely postulated that once Scots realise that a vote for the SNP at Westminster is essentially wasted they might start to see sense.

zagubov

I think this has turned out really well for everybody.
I have no idea why the thread needs to continue to exist.
The unionist parties won their headline goal, the referendum. Shame they lost the voters trust.
The nats lost the referendum. The trust of the electorate will be a nice consolation prize.
There you go, prizes for everyone.

robmatic

zagubov wrote: »

The nats lost the referendum. The trust of 45% ofthe electorate will be a nice consolation prize.

Fixed that for you.

.string.

Possibly some voters in Scotland will feel that the SNP will get a "better deal" for Scotland than the other parties: "better" however would be defined by SNP policy, not of those who won the referendum. So I hope that the SNP flash will go down the pan where it belongs.

In any case I'm not convinced that the SNP will find any worthwhile allies or even discussion partners in the UK Parliament.

As a floating voter myself I'm in the category of people who need to be persuaded in their voting choice. The headlines for me are
o. The economy
o. The relationship with the EU
o. The state of our Union

at the moment, The Tories win out on the economy, Labour on the approach to the EU (subject to them stating their intention to win improvements in the UK ) and I'm waiting on the last matter as the proposals pan out.

I dismiss as pure blather the rhetoric on such things as Welfare and the NHS since all the main parties care about it and suggestions that one or the other is trying to ruin it is pure in and Bunkum.

As for the Lib Dems I might vote for them if dementia strikes me.

I would not vote Labour if there was the slightest risk that they would ally with the SNP, and would not vote Tory if they ally with UKIP and call a referendum on the EU Membership before achieving clarity of a new negotiated deal

Of course the above will be difficult to assess before the votes are in and parties try to form coalitions, but one can only use one's judgement.

Shakethedisease

kabayiri wrote: »

I'm not convinced the Scrap Trident argument would lead to significant cost saving.

It's clearly a big defence sale to the U.S; it would not be suprising to see beneficial contracts for UK suppliers lost if Trident were to be scrapped.

Then there is the way the contracts are written. Penalty clauses could wipe out a lot of any potential gain.

Hmm it's not so much scrapping it, as scrapping the old one AND replacing it with a successor system...

Estimates of the one-0ff costs of replacing Trident range from £20bn to more than £30bn over 30 years.
Add that to an assumed annual running cost of £2bn and you come very close to the total calculated by Greenpeace in 2009: £97bn over 30 years. But estimates of the long-term costs of big capital spends are notoriously hard to get right.
The current annual spend on Trident is less than 1 per cent of the current benefits bill, depending on how you look at it. We are due to spend around £200bn this year on welfare, if you lump state pensions, benefits and tax credits togther.
On the other hand, 6 per cent of the defence budget is double the percentage admitted to by ministers in the early days of Trident, and £2bn a year would pay the salaries of nearly 100,000 new nurses, and so on…

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-should-we-scrap-trident/13202

But it looks like Ed Milliband is having 'wobbles' about it anyway. Lib Dems have similar concerns. The bit about the SNP is a bit of Telegraph hyping.

Ed Miliband hints he may back replacing Trident with cheaper system.

Ed Miliband has indicated he would like to see Britain’s submarine-borne nuclear arsenal replaced with a cheaper system.

The Labour leader said he wanted to see Britain have the “least-cost nuclear deterrent we can have”, ahead of a decision on whether to replace Trident's four submarines.




The remarks open the door to a possible coalition with the Scottish National Party, whose leader, Nicola Sturgeon, has made scrapping Trident’s submarine base in Scotland a precondition of any pact with Labour in a hung parliament.

Next year MPs are expected to hold a final vote on whether to build a new generation of submarines as a like-for-like replacement, at an estimated cost of £20 billion.

Advocates of the current system fear a Parliament with large numbers of left-wing Labour, SNP or Liberal Democrat MPs could sink the plans.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ed-miliband/11325940/Ed-Miliband-hints-he-may-back-replacing-Trident-with-cheaper-system.html

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

I don't blame the messenger, I call the messenger wrong which of course she has been quite a few times.

Correct, nobody knows what will happen. You are, of course, convinced that all outcomes in the General Election will be positive for the SNP. I have merely postulated that once Scots realise that a vote for the SNP at Westminster is essentially wasted they might start to see sense.

Am not convinced. It's just logical conclusion. I don't see how voting SNP at Westminster is a wasted vote either. In the past, it may well have been seen like that.. but certainly not at this election. And no, you're not always right either Mr Perfect.

First day back at school today for my youngest 3 kids. Was nice not having to look out school dinner money for the youngest anymore. From today all school children in P 1- 3 now get free school meals. A measure to help very young children of the working poor, as well as those on benefits.
Scottish Labour of course, shot themselves in the foot opposing that one. Made huge gaffes today over it too with weird press releases pointing out people like Nicola Sturgeon ( who is childless ) will be the one's reaping the benefits. (?). And it's only the first day of the campaign !
There will be a few mums about today thinking of changing their votes in May I dare say...and not in Labour's direction.

Zag's right though, this thread should probably be closed. Scotland did vote No, so the economists can turn their attention to other matters for a while.

Shakethedisease

.string. wrote: »

I've no reason to be embarrassed but I would be if I simply acted as a conduit for a political party like the SNP. If you continually promulgate what are recognisably SNP views and interpretations you must expect reaction.


Regarding Trident, while there are those that who against it, it is agreed by a majority in our democratic system, not a parochial distortion by one local party.

Of course I expect reaction. I like yours usually .. you've just gotten a little too ranty about the SNP lately, and personal in your 'Shakey won't listen' type replies to others as if I'm not around to read them. You never answer any of my questions either which is a shame. ( You never expanded on how the SNP would be 'safely ignored' in a hung parliament if they held the balance of power for example ).

There are more than a few round here ready to dismiss me as a mad cybernat and go a bit mental just on seeing my username near a Scottish thread. I didn't think you'd be one of them that's all. I was a little disappointed to be honest.

But this thread is probably more or less at the end of it's 'natural' life now. I look forward to seeing you around elsewhere on other threads discussing the election( s) if so.