Economists Urge Scotland to Vote No......

ruggedtoast

Shakethedisease wrote: »

I bow to you your most 'oracleness' of politics. I pointed out months ago the delicious thought of a No vote that would result in the balance of power in Westminster being held by the SNP. And backed it up with polls as well. The SNP surge hasn't been caused by the referendum. It has been bubbling up over the last few years.

At the end of the day, Independence was a leap too far.. fair do's. But in terms of a choice between Milliband/Murphy and Sturgeon/Hosie/Salmond/Robertson as to who will act in the best interests of Scotland ? We'll see.. and they're bringing the fight to you this time. Am sure you're looking forward to Salmond back wall to wall on your tv screens as much as I am !

And a Tory government in our 'own backyard' ? What are you on about petal ? Tories are a complete irrelevance in Scotland. Labour is heading that way too. Actually, so are the Lib Dems... That's possibly the problem in a nutshell to be honest <--- Hmm after typing that, yes, that's probably it. Labour was once a 'movement' with a political arm. SNP is a political arm, that somehow, seems to have become an all encompassing 'independence movement' over the last year. Even for groups and other parties who don't agree with the SNP on everything, or even anything much. I don't think it's a common goal that's going to be stoppable any time soon. In fact it seems to be gathering momentum again.

It might not be an immediate thing. But I wouldn't discount an independent Scotland ever. How mad lol !

I wish you and everyone here a wonderful Xmas and New Year. I've had a great time debating, highs and lows re the Scottish ref over the last year especially. I'm sure there is much more we can debate on, coming up to May and well beyond. But heartfelt best wishes to everyone here.

Three things Shakethedisease is getting for Christmas:

1.David Cameron
2. Boris Johnson
3. The Westminster Government presiding over the Union of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Three things Shakethedisease is never getting for any Christmas, ever:

1) Scottish Independence
2) President Salmond
3) Scottish Independence
4) Scottish Independence

Generali

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Three things Shakethedisease is getting for Christmas:

1.David Cameron
2. Boris Johnson
3. The Westminster Government presiding over the Union of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Three things Shakethedisease is never getting for any Christmas, ever:

1) Scottish Independence
2) President Salmond
3) Scottish Independence
4) Scottish Independence

In seriousness, it seems to me that if Scots won't vote for independence at the end of a brutal recession, a weak and unpopular Government in Westminster and oil prices, a huge source of revenue, at an all-time high then they never will.

STD refuses to discuss it of course but oil prices returning to long-term norms means that an independent Scotland would have a massive hole in her finances to fill.

Scotland was promised control of her finances. That is something that should be prioritised to demonstrate exactly what a folly independence would be.

ruggedtoast

Generali wrote: »

In seriousness, it seems to me that if Scots won't vote for independence at the end of a brutal recession, a weak and unpopular Government in Westminster and oil prices, a huge source of revenue, at an all-time high then they never will.

STD refuses to discuss it of course but oil prices returning to long-term norms means that an independent Scotland would have a massive hole in her finances to fill.

Scotland was promised control of her finances. That is something that should be prioritised to demonstrate exactly what a folly independence would be.

You cant discuss this issue with STD. There is no discussion, just her saying what she wants people to believe and ignoring the replies. I gave up long ago.

Scottish Nationalism hasn't gone away though thats for sure. But it will have to find some way of dealing with itself that its more productive than stamping its feet and complaining that everything is unfair.

Shakethedisease

ruggedtoast wrote: »

Three things Shakethedisease is getting for Christmas:

1.David Cameron
2. Boris Johnson
3. The Westminster Government presiding over the Union of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Three things Shakethedisease is never getting for any Christmas, ever:

1) Scottish Independence
2) President Salmond
3) Scottish Independence
4) Scottish Independence

Why are you talking about me as if I'm not here ? :eek:

Shakethedisease

Generali wrote: »

In seriousness, it seems to me that if Scots won't vote for independence at the end of a brutal recession, a weak and unpopular Government in Westminster and oil prices, a huge source of revenue, at an all-time high then they never will.

STD refuses to discuss it of course but oil prices returning to long-term norms means that an independent Scotland would have a massive hole in her finances to fill.

Scotland was promised control of her finances. That is something that should be prioritised to demonstrate exactly what a folly independence would be.

We discussed oil prices and the pros and cons of them endlessly in all the independence threads before the vote. And yes, if oil prices remain as low as they are, and Scotland had voted Yes then it would have been a problem if they remained low until 'independence day' whenever that might have been. The SNP said March 2016, others were saying it would have taken years.

But the Yes vote didn't happen. And I suspect that regarding independence there will be a much more gradualist approach to it. I assume through the SNP and other parties campaigning on gaining more and more fiscal powers as time goes on.. until independence doesn't seem such a great leap into the unknown.

In terms of oil prices in an independent Scotland on this board they have been discussed, and endlessly dissected. Do you really want to do it all again ? I agree that it would have been a problem IF they remained low until the day Scotland left. But I don't agree that independence as a whole, is dependent solely on oil prices. What else do you want me to say ? It's all hypothetical now.

It's being used as a means by the MSM to dampen down the SNP vote right now before May 2015. That and endessly carping on about how the SNP want Indyref2 asap. However, it doesn't appear to be working.

A Daily Record opinion poll has found support for independence equally split, with four per cent undecided, three months after the referendum vote.
The survey equals the highest support for independence recorded by pollsters Survation during the campaign and is three points up on the September 18 outcome which ended with 55 per cent backing the UK and 45 per cent wanting to break away.
The state of the nation poll also shows a clear majority want a referendum re-run within the next 10 years, fuelling Alex Salmond’s turn-around from his policy that a referendum would be a “once in a lifetime” event.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/revealed-daily-record-poll-shows-4859836

The Survation poll of 1000 people shows the nationalist surge continuing with a record-breaking 48 per cent of voters saying they will back the SNP in the May general election.
With the SNP up two points from November and Labour unchanged on 24 per cent, the Nats are outgunning Labour two to one across the country.
The poll would leave ex-leader Alex Salmond – if he wins the Gordon seat – going to the Commons with 54 SNP MPs in 59 constituencies – and just four remaining with Labour.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/revealed-daily-record-poll-shows-4851556

Boy the Daily record must have been gritting their teeth with those articles.

Gangaweed

Generali wrote: »

So, to be clear, the SNP is happy to ditch its principles in order to force through Scottish independence in the face of massive opposition from both Scots and Brits.

Sure they are. That is the SNP's "new kind of politics."

ruggedtoast

Shakethedisease wrote: »

Why are you talking about me as if I'm not here ? :eek:

As a Scottish Nationalist it's just something you are now going to have to get used to.

Shakethedisease

ruggedtoast wrote: »

As a Scottish Nationalist it's just something you are now going to have to get used to.

Really ? But still you still feel the need to reply to every single post I make ? That encourages me immensely. When you start ignoring me, then I'll start getting worried ! Nothing so far though. You always reply or feel you have to say something.

My little SNP perspective on this board irks you. Too bad. You too will have to get used to it. And if the polls play out..so will Westminster in May.

.string.

It's maybe possible that Scotland having greater fiscal passers will feed into the notion that "going the whole way " is an easy step, but it could easily go the other way, drawing attention to the "value for money" that the other funding brings to the Scots.

But I doubt if the SNP has the intellectual honesty to consider anything but their own fairy land run by the Scottish Master Race; they would have led the Scots into an economic basket case of a country for all the reasons we explained before but were ignored by the SNP in their Referendum Conpaign.

As for the increased Scottish funding, I,'m quite happy for the Scots to become responsible for their own overspending, but not for all taxation. Scotland has to pay its dues to benefit from the advantages of being in the Union. Mind you, the freeloading SNP will not see it that way, they're quite capable of ignoring the decision of the Scottish people.

elantan

so many people seem to see a different Scotland from me ... and the hatred towards the SNP baffles me completely