Disused Mineshafts. Treatment unknown.

Loolaboo

Hi, we purchased our house 9 years ago and have recently been trying to sell. We accepted offer and all going through ok until the mining report showed a mineshaft within 20 metres of our property. It's on next door but ones driveway. We knew about this when we bought it but it caused us no problems.
Our purchasers solicitor requested a further interpretive report. This shows there is no evidence of the mine being capped or treated.
We don't recall having this information when we bought the property but have since taken legal advice and the files from our purchase show it was sent to us via post, even though we have no copy in our documents.
I have contacted the coal mining authority who state if the report says unknown, this is all the information they have.
We have since been told our house is worth 30% less than market value and would only be sold to a cash buyer.
My question is, how did the house builders manage to get planing permission to build on land and around mineshafts that no one knew were safe? Who can I contact next? I am only looking for evidence that it has at some point been treated and capped but seem to be getting nowhere.
I will try the local council planning department tomorrow.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

davidmcn

Loolaboo wrote: »

how did the house builders manage to get planing permission to build on land and around mineshafts that no one knew were safe?

When did they get planning permission? It's normal for geotechnical reports to be obtained before building in any sort of mining area, if you're lucky the planners will have a copy with the papers. Less likely if you're talking about a relatively historic development.

Slinky

Can the neighbours whose property the shaft is on help with any paperwork they may have?

Loolaboo

The houses were built in 1970 so not too old. Have spoken to the neighbour and they only have the same information as us. As they will have no desire to move or sell at any point they are pretty happy to just leave things as they are and are not bothered about it at all.

Many thanks.

Another_username_2

There is some helpful information at coal decc gov uk /en /coal /cms /services /reports/ reports .aspx for example details of the Mining Reports service at coal decc gov uk /assets /coal/ whatwedo/mrsds_brochure_20071%281%29 .pdf

[It seems I am not permitted to post links - please reconstruct. Reminds me of why I don't contribute to this site often]

Although I don't work for the Coal Authority, I have had some contact with them relating to the records themselves. As the brochure explains, there was no requirement for mines to submit abandonment plans until 1872 and limited quality control on these documents until 1951.

The fact that the only information available is a report of a location of a mineshaft suggests that the underlying information belongs to one of the early periods, and quite likely the earliest. It is possible that this is, for example, no more than a note on a surveyor's map or notebook, that he has seen a feature of that sort. If that is the case, the location could be known to only limited accuracy, possibly as poorly as to a few hundred metres - no GPS systems in the 19th Century! As long as the Coal Authority is in possession of this information, even though it is very limited, it is obliged to pass this to you.

In other words, no-one knows what sort of shaft was seen, exactly where it was, or whether any sort of closure was either needed or was undertaken. It may be nothing to worry about at all, but you cannot assume that whatever it was will be found under your neighbour's driveway.

You and your neighbours might proceed by getting either the Coal Authority, the British Geological Survey, or an independent expert to look into the context of this, building on the CA Interpretive Reports and BGS Ground Stability Reports (which I understand you have already commissioned) respectively. The mining experts and geologists will be able to look at the history of mining in the area, the geology, depth and viability of workable deposits etc. They may be able to set your, your purchasers', and your lenders' minds at rest by providing a better estimate of what might be present. Whilst this would cost hundreds of pounds, maybe a thousand or two, for a few days' desk work by these specialists, it could be well worthwhile.

If you wanted to go the whole hog, you and your neighbours could even commission your own geotechnical survey. Although that would be pricey, if this doubt is leading to a major reduction in selling prices, removal of that doubt could well be worthwhile for the entire neighbourhood.

AdrianC

Another_username wrote: »

There is some helpful information at http://coal.decc.gov.uk/en/coal/cms/services/reports/reports.aspx for example details of the Mining Reports service at http://coal.decc.gov.uk/assets/coal/whatwedo/mrsds_brochure_20071%281%29.pdf

There y'go.

[It seems I am not permitted to post links - please reconstruct. Reminds me of why I don't contribute to this site often]

It's precisely because you have so few posts that you can't post links - to prevent newly signed-up spammers from flooding the forums.

Loolaboo

Thank you for the link and information. I have today been on to the local council planning department and after a but of searching by them we have discovered that the council aren't even aware of this mine shaft. They have none at all in the direct area on their maps though we know there are several.
Another neighbour mentioned that this was found when the neighbour whose land it is on, had a garage built.
Surely if it was found then some investigations would have had to be done before the building could go ahead?
It also looks like the builders weren't aware when the houses were built either. So now I'm at another dead end, no one has information to give me. I'll get on to the coal authority again and ask what procedures are in place before land can be built on in known mining areas.

Many thanks.

Another_username_2

Thanks for that, AdrianC.

To expand further on the points I made previously:

No mineshaft has actually been found - a record of a possible mineshaft has come to light. If it is an early record, the location given could well be very approximate. That record may indicate only that a feature was noted in some general area, significantly wider than a single building plot. Look at the CA report carefully - or ask their staff - for the primary evidence and its context.

A lot of work has been done over the last 15 to 20 years to digitize records such as maps, abandoned mine plans and surveyors' notebooks, and to make them accessible. I'm sure that new information came to light during that process. Your account suggests that information about this possible shaft was not available at the time these houses were built but had become so by the time that the neighbour's garage was built.

Clearly, potential purchasers and lenders want to know more about any risks that the possible shaft may present. As I wrote previously, I see two ways to deal with this - one is to place the current information in a context that shows that any risk can reasonably be dismissed as minimal; the other is to undertake investigative work to demonstrate that your property is not affected. I don't see much mileage in challenging procedures in place forty-odd years ago, when standards were different and the report of a mineshaft does not seem to have been available.

AdrianC

Loolaboo wrote: »

I'll get on to the coal authority again and ask what procedures are in place before land can be built on in known mining areas.

Problem is that the current procedures are kinda irrelevant. You know that the situation you're facing doesn't conform to them

The relevant procedures are those that were in place when the house was built - and the coal authority have already said they have no information.

If you've got a legitimate beef with anybody, it's with the solicitor that missed this problem when you bought the place.