PCN in own parking bay

PCNAUG14

Hi all. just looking for some advise on appealing to POPLA. I have now read the guidence and many posts on this subject but wanted to check how best to proceed.

I own (leasehold) a flat which has 2 allocated parking spaces. For each space I have been given a flimsy credit card sized permit to display on the dashboard. The permit must have slipped to the floor as on returning to my car I had two PCNs for consecutive days for £100 each (£50 within 14 days).

Unfortuantely, having received the tickets I appealed in a soft manner to the operator stating the ticket was on the floor thinking they would see sense but the appeal was rejected.

There are numerous signs around the car park and I am aware that the permit should be displayed so do I have suitable grounds to appeal to POPLA (disproportionate charge?) and if so, can anyone suggest the manner in which I should respond.

Also should I wait for the NTK before doing anything further?

Thank you in advance for any help.

The_Slithy_Tove

Edit: Missed the bit saying you appealed, so ignore this:
Yes, wait for NtK, assuming you are the keeper, and then appeal in the normal way.

Meanwhile, check EXACTLY what your lease says about parking. If the spaces are part of your property (normally outlined in red on a plan), and the lease doesn't say anything about permits (it won't) and doesn't give the management company the right to impose additional conditions, then that's it, they are yours and no-one else's. No signs, no BS from the management company gives the right for them or any parking company to come onto your property and start handing out notices. If you want rid of them, then serve notice on the management company that you are withdrawing consent for them or their agents (the PPC) to trespass on your property. They will be liable for any breach. Then stop displaying any permits, and tell them to get lost.

The nuclear option is detailed in this GAC thread:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKCPS-liable-for-trespass

Dee140157

As you have already appealed the PCNs and been rejected now is time to go to POPLA.

Look in post 3 of newbie thread and find an appropriate appeal for a free car park (which effectively is what this is), just amend words slightly to show it is residents parking area. As you have a permit (which you may/may not pay for) , there is no loss, therefore there is no GPEOL that can flow from this.

Can you confirm you have 2 POPLA codes. (It's not an IPC PPC is it?)

Since you have appealed the NTD and presumably outed yourself as driver, there is no point waiting for an NTK which may or may not arrive depending on whether the PPC clearly understands pofa12 , which many don't.

PCNAUG14

OK, thanks Slithy Tove, I'll check the lease and go from there.

Thanks Dee - Permits are not paid for other than when lost. I received a pre-printed POPLA form with my rejection from the operator but this only has one verification code. Can this be used for both tickets?
PPC is OPC.

The_Slithy_Tove

Each charge should have been appealed separately, and each rejected separately with a new POPLA code for each. A shame it costs them £27 a pop. If you want to cause mischief, then stop displaying your permit, get a ticket a day, and appeal each and every one. At £27 a day, they'll give up pretty quickly.

Also, getting 2 charges for what is effectively a single incident of non-display of permit is cheating big time (on their part). Does it say £100 (or whatever) per day? You could go away for a month with no permit - you only parked ONCE with no permit.
Or am I trying to apply logic and fairness to a company who knows the meaning of neither.

I hope you never handed over money for a lost permit!

Finally, make sure all your neighbours know this is a complete scam. Together you can get them booted out fairly quickly.

Coupon-mad

PCNAUG14 wrote: »

OK, thanks Slithy Tove, I'll check the lease and go from there.

Thanks Dee - Permits are not paid for other than when lost. I received a pre-printed POPLA form with my rejection from the operator but this only has one verification code. Can this be used for both tickets?
PPC is OPC.

That's naughty but if OPC meant this to cover BOTH PCNs (if you appealed both and they replied about both) then use that code to clearly appeal BOTH PCNs to POPLA, and say so specifically in your appeal introduction (then copy some winning POPLA words into a draft and show us your POPLA appeal).

What you DO NOT do is ask for a second code and then wait and dither and wonder which PCN the first one is for, and let it time out! POPLA will tell OPC to issue a second code once they have your appeal to both PCNs, but that's then not your problem!

Half_way

[QUOTE=The Slithy Tove;66464089

Meanwhile, check EXACTLY what your lease says about parking. If the spaces are part of your property (normally outlined in red on a plan), and the lease doesn't say anything about permits (it won't) and doesn't give the management company the right to impose additional conditions, then that's it, they are yours and no-one else's. No signs, no BS from the management company gives the right for them or any parking company to come onto your property and start handing out notices. If you want rid of them, then serve notice on the management company that you are withdrawing consent for them or their agents (the PPC) to trespass on your property. They will be liable for any breach. Then stop displaying any permits, and tell them to get lost.

The nuclear option is detailed in this GAC thread:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?377246-UKCPS-liable-for-trespass[/QUOTE]


As above the important bit is the wording of your lease in particular the bit about parking what does it say ( exact wording )?
You dont need to go for the nuclear option but it would be useful if you knew where you stand with these things.

The_Deep

Yes, you could appeal to Popla, or you could tell them to take you to court, and take the action Mr Tove outlines in thread number 2. After all, you are the land owner, you can tell them, and the MA to swivel.

In order to understand the calibre of your ex clamper knuckle dragging adversary read this.

http://www.expressandstar.com/news/2011/03/31/26000-fine-for-parking-firm/

PCNAUG14

Thanks everyone. I will check the lease and then draft a popla response.

PCNAUG14

The lease only says I have the right to park in my designated space as marked on a plan, there is no mention of permits, or rights to impose additional conditions.
I'll get drafting my POPLA appeal tomorrow.

bod1467

So in other words the PPC was trespassing when applying the PCN to your vehicle.