My consumer right to not be stopped and searched

arcon5

bris wrote: »

If they have suspicion to believe you are shop lifting then they can ask to search you, you can refuse.

If you refuse they are entitled to hold you until the police arrive, the police have the power to search you with out permission.

Simples.

What law permits them to detain a person in such circumstances? What rights does the security guard for a supermarket have over and above the general public?

daytona0

check the bag for a small piece of paper. He might be gay

DaveTheMus

kynare wrote: »

I'm not looking for anything other than an explanation of why I was stopped. This is cause the security guard specifically said he was told too. I don't care who told him, but I believe I should know why and if it's normal for them to follow this process.

I also want an apology about being called Ms. Nothing in my email indicated I was female and if they had read the email as stated on the non-automated message a handler had sent me, there was nothing to suggest it.

What if they say 'it's because you look like a thief'...

shaun_from_Africa

arcon5 wrote: »

What law permits them to detain a person in such circumstances? What rights does the security guard for a supermarket have over and above the general public?

A security guard has no more legal powers than any member of the general public.
However, as a member of the public has the legal right under the Police and criminal evidence act to detain another person if they believe that they are guilty of a crime (it must be an "indictable offence" which basically means that it could result in a high court trial), the security guard has the same right.

hollydays

DaveTheMus wrote: »

What if they say 'it's because you look like a thief'...

Because of course they will put that in writing...?

hollydays

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

A security guard has no more legal powers than any member of the general public.
However, as a member of the public has the legal right under the Police and criminal evidence act to detain another person if they believe that they are guilty of a crime (it must be an "indictable offence" which basically means that it could result in a high court trial), the security guard has the same right.

The wording has slightly changed now since socpa also..
Paraphrasing the law is dangerous. Nowhere does it say the word" believe" though in that definition.

shaun_from_Africa

hollydays wrote: »

The wording has slightly changed now since socpa also..
Paraphrasing the law is dangerous. Nowhere does it say the word" believe" though.

The actual wording used is:

A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant—
anyone who is guilty of the offence;
anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.

What exactly is the difference in suspecting someone to be guilty and believing them to be guilty? (that's not a rhetorical question)

Bantex_2

kynare wrote: »

Last week I went to Sainsbury's to buy a couple of items. I had the items in less than 2 mins and went to self service. Cashier helped me out as I needed authorisation for one item, where she removed the tag. I paid by card and put my items in to my bag for the extra Nectar points. While leaving I called back and than told by the security guard that someone had told him to search me. Being embarrassed as this was right next to the exit I let him search my whole bag. The guy was nice and apologetic, even though he was really loud which attracted some awkward glances and after a few minutes and an apology (from him only) he let me leave.

Anyways is this normal. No alarm went off and the only thing I could say that could lead to this happening was:

1. I thanked some of their staff for their help (weird nowadays)
2. I have a great looking beard
3. I was wearing a hoodie (superdry one with no big pockets) and shorts.
4. I paid at self service, albeit with some help from cashier as tag had to be re moved
5. I knew what I wanted and read the signs that told me what they were
6. I wasn't ethnically positioned to be in the area at that time


Like I said no alarm went off before I got searched or even after. So unless the security guard, who thoroughly checked my bag used the power of his mind to switch of the alarms whilst I worked through; there was no reason to stop me.

Sainsbury's are investigating this, although I don't believe anything but a "we can search anyone with a probable cause to steal," answer will come about. However is this a normal procedure.

Ps They emailed me today saying they read my email. They called me Ms. I know that's not strange, but point number 2 above clearly stated I told them I had a beard and I also mentioned near me or my wife will shop there ever again. So I guess they never read my email.

What does No 6 mean?

hollydays

shaun_from_Africa wrote: »

The actual wording used is:


What exactly is the difference in suspecting someone to be guilty and believing them to be guilty? (that's not a rhetorical question)

It's not a legal term in the legal definition. As you can see by this thread there is enough confusion about the law here, it's not something that should be quoted unless it's exact because people then interpret it as they see fit. He may" believe "an offence has been committed because he's been told. That's not necessarily what the law intends.

shaun_from_Africa

hollydays wrote: »

It's not a legal term in the legal definition. As you can see by this thread there is enough confusion about the law here, it's not something that should be quoted unless it's exact because people then interpret it as they see fit. He may" believe "an offence has been committed because he's been told. That's clearly not what the law intends.

"belief" and "suspicion" are often interchangable in the same phrase or sentence.

suspicion.
noun (BELIEF IN SOMEONE'S GUILT)
C1 [C or U] a feeling or belief that someone has committed a crime or done something wrong:

sus·pi·cion
noun: suspicion; plural noun: suspicions

1. a feeling or thought that something is possible, likely, or true.
"she had a sneaking suspicion that he was laughing at her"

synonyms: intuition, feeling, impression, inkling, hunch, fancy, notion, supposition, belief, idea, theory

How people interpret the law varies greatly and even judges often have totally different interpretations to other judges, so I see nothing wrong with giving a laymans (my) idea of what I think the law means.

If someone wants a trained legal opinion then they should get one, otherwise if they ask on here they will get lots of different opinions from lots of different people.

As I stated about PACE, the two words, suspicion and belief can have the same meaning and in this case I think they do. (In my legally untrained opioion of course)