Who's right? Eclipse Internet

ElkyElky

I was hoping for some advice before I decide to go further with this issue.

I migrated from BT Infinity to Eclipse home fibre using a mac code. Paid £100 for installation on a 12 month contract (installation is free for 24 month contracts). Received an email from them with the usual information, giving me the date and time frame (3rd Sep) that the engineer would be coming to mines to install it and make sure it's all running fine.

3rd came and went after having taken the day off work and no engineer appeared. Not bothered about taking the day off work, it was a good excuse to have a lazy day at home. So I connected my OpenReach modem from the BT Infinity service to the new router myself and set it all up and finally got connected. The email from Eclipse says that the engineer would do this.

Was duly billed for the £100 installation charge though I feel it isn't valid having installed it myself at my end - or at the very least, they haven't fulfilled their obligation to fully install my service.

Got out the terms and conditions and found this section in the Broadband Installation part:

2.8 If, for any reason, the Carrier should be required to visit Your Premises to assist with the Installation or any fault reported thereafter, You may incur an Additional Charge. For the avoidance of doubt, the Carrier will be required to visit Your Premises to assist with the Installation of Our Fibre Services.

I can't see any mention of any fee being charged for installation at the exchange, only my premises... and that an engineer *will* visit me for said installation and an additional charge of £100 will apply for the privilege of having them visit my premises.

I spoke to Eclipse on live chat and said that although I was perfectly happy with the £100 charge, I felt it is now invalid since the engineer didn't arrive. Eclipse said the engineer would have visited the exchange and so the charge remains, despite not actually having visited me to carry out installation from my side and the fact that they're not actually complying with their own terms and conditions.

I then asked Eclipse to fulfil their installation obligations if they believe the charge is correct... by having the engineer come round to make sure it's all running fine (as stated they would in the welcome email and terms) but they said no. I'd have to begin the complaints procedure if I want to take it further.

Is this something worthy of taking further or give up now?

MataNui

So effectively its ALWAYS going to be a £100 installation charge for everyone sine an engineer will ALWAYS be required to perform the work at the exchange. Thats what it sounds like they are saying. If that is the case then the £100 should be made perfectly clear at the point of ordering.

It sounds very much like you have been seriously misled when you ordered. I would definitely take this further.

kwikbreaks

The £100 was notified up front so it's not like it's some surprise charge. What was wrong was the ISP information on the procedure. As this was a fibre to fibre migration no home visit was needed - just a router change and even that probably only needed a login change.

Plugging in a fibre modem and connecting it to a router is hardly enormously more work than plugging in an ADSL router which has been the norm for years now. Had it been an ADSL/VDSL router like the BT Home Hub 5 it would have been identical to an ADSL install.

ElkyElky

The thing is though, I was happy paying the charge with the belief that the engineer would 1) visit the exchange and 2) come to my premises after to switch over the router and run whatever tests they run to ensure the connection is good. I have it in black and white that was what they would be doing.

I was made fully aware of the charge and what exactly it was for. Me switching the router myself, and popping in the username and password was simple, no qualms about that. I was told that's what they would do though, they never said I would have to do it or if there was a chance the engineer wouldn't need to visit. The engineer would visit, in absolute terms - and since they did not, I plugged the modem in to the router on the off chance it would be live. Since there is no mention about the fee being charged for the installation at the exchange, only in my premises, then they're effectively charging me for installing it myself.

They're trying to say it's valid since the engineer went to the exchange yet but the terms seem to define the installation at my side rather than theirs. It reads to me as if the charge is only valid if they visit my house and if they don't, then there'd be no additional charge.

Thanks for the replies. Just feel a bit short changed.

spyhunter

No engineer visits to the premises for Fibre to Fibre migrations are quite a new thing.

Given FTTC/FTTP is a relatively new product and customer churn is only now happening as a result of the improved coverage and better offers from isp's for new customers and isp's promoting it more over the cheaper LLU/ADSL products. This may explain why eclipse have not updated the migration proceedure when you already have fibre broadband.

Still i would raise it with them and at least seek some recompense for having to install it yourself.

The install may have been easy for you but it cost you £100 and at no point was it stated you would have to do anything yourself.

They should at least learn from your complaint and update the migration proceedure on their website.

Maybe they may offer a partial refund to apologize ??

ElkyElky

I'll pop in an official complaint tomorrow although they seemed pretty set on being valid during the live chat but least there's the ombudsman.

I even gave them the chance to send the engineer to complete the promised installation so I could at least get my money's worth but that was refused. It's ironic because the terms say I'll be charged further for missing an engineer appointment but apparently I'm still liable when they don't turn up and I have to complete installation myself.

Not a good start for this company, dread to think what the remainder of the fixed term will be like.

onomatopoeia99

It seems the fee would have been £100 even if the website were worded correctly and stated that no engineer would visit. I suspect it reflects the wholesale cost of migration and what you got is exactly what the wholesale cost covers.

Would you have gone ahead on that basis, or would you have stayed with your current provider as you wouldn't migrate without an engineer coming to plug the new router in for you?

Regarding the ISP themselves, we've been with Eclipse for about a decade at work, they are a good deal better than any of the ISPs that advertise on the telly.

ElkyElky

To be honest, I'm not sure. I migrated to Eclipse with the belief that the engineer would be visiting my property. It was stated on their website, the welcome email and the terms and conditions I happily agreed to. If I was given the option to self install and pay a reduced installation fee, I'd prefer that. There was absolutely no suggestion that I'd be required to set it up at my end.

The service I received wasn't as described.

If I understand the terms correctly, the installation fee isn't valid unless the engineer comes to my property. The person I spoke to on the live chat said they define the installation as the engineer going to the exchange rather than my house.... which contradicts the terms and conditions.

I chose Eclipse because I read so many good things about them but I'm already beginning to regret moving.

Oli M: Ok so as my colleague has advised the charge will still stand. The engineer in some instances will require site access however he still needed to attend the exchange to make some changers therefore the change will still stand.

Stephen: Sorry Lee - the charge is valid. You agreed to the £100 installation charge when you signed up C for the service. If you didn't want to pay that you could have chosen the 24 month contract.

Lee: I did agree, absolutely. I agreed for installation both at the exchange and in my property. Installation in the exchange obviously happened but not in my premises.

Lee: The email states the engineer would be visiting my property at the given date and time frame to install at my end and make sure I'm up and running. That didn't happen.

Stephen: I'm sorry Lee - there's nothing else I can say. The charge is valid whether an engineer visited C your premises or not.

Lee: If you say the charge remains valid, then I'll be expecting the engineer to return to finish the installation of my order - since part of the £100 installation charge was for the engineer to visit
my premises

Lee: The email I received from Eclipse was specifying the date and time frame the engineer would visit my property. It also says they'll bring the vDSL modem with them, to which they'll connect to the router and "the engineer will ensure you can connect to your fibre broadband connection". So essentially, I didn't receive the full installation service I've paid for (and expected)

Stephen: If your connection is working, then no engineer is needed.

kwikbreaks

As this was a migration from one FTTC provider to another there would have been no cabling changes needed - just the same sort of keyboard job routing change that is done for BTw based ADSL to ADSL migrations.

I suspect there can't be many FTTC to FTTC migrations given there will have been an 18 month minimum term on the initial contract. Eclipse are charging the same for a migration as for a brand new install which would certainly involve charges from Openreach. I'm not sure what the charge would be for a migration but it should be the same asanADSL migration which I'd guess is probably less than £20 although no doubt somebodywill correct me on that.

You have every right to feel short changed but the engineer visit is irrelevant as it was certainly not needed.

teffers

Eclipse is part of the KC (Kingston Communications) Group.

This group also has a Hull only monoploly brand ISP called Karoo.

All I can say is I wish you the best of luck dealing with them. They're a company that was previously part owned by the local council and they're attitudes haven't changed much in the last 20 years since privatisation.

kwikbreaks

Actually I've been with Eclipse twice. Don't recall exact reason I left first time but probably on price. The second time I signed up for a one month free trial. This was when ADSL Max was first introduced to supplement/replace the old fixed speed services and my ISP wasn't offering this.

They screwed up big time and everything crawled. As some were saying their torrents were flying I can only guess that they'd somehow got their shaping reversed. I left well inside the free trial. That didn't stop them taking random amounts from my credit card over the next three months. Despite numerous calls and emails to get the problem sorted it wasn't fixed until I sent a recorded delivery letter threatening small claims court action. Their admin in those days was abysmal as was their technical competence.

So - good luck with your claim for a refund.