Napier parking,Willen lakes

husheechee

Hi,I have just got an NTK dated 22/08/2014 regarding an expired P&D ticket contravention that occurred on the 19/07/2014 at willen lakes (Ive been on holiday so I only I opened it today when I got back).
Ive had a few of these and would normally put in a soft appeal which would always get rejected and then obtain a POPLA appeal number and then state the usual defence of GPEOL/landowner contract etc which would normally suffice to stop them from pestering me but I have never dealt with Napier before,having read coupon mads excellent advice on the newbies sticky I see that Napier require a different approach regarding the wording of an appeal.
Could someone point me in the right direction for the correct advice/ wording please?. It seems that Napier are a harder nut to crack than usual and I would like to win this one as well!
Many thanks
Husheechee

martmonk

I believe the nuances regarding Napier come with your POPLA appeal and would require pics of signage if you have them.
Your initial appeal is to get the POPLA code.
You haven't said whether there was a windscreen ticket - if not the NTK looks out of time to me.

Guys_Dad

Don't let this get to court. You must win at POPLA or before. I agree wit martmonk's comments above.

see http://www.napierparking.co.uk/assets/Uploads/PDF/Yau-Judgement.pdf

husheechee

Thanks, yes it was a windscreen ticket,unfortunately I lost the ticket on the way home when I opened the window of my vehicle and the draught took it out of the window somewhere on the A14!
I don't have any pictures of the signs,my phone got water damaged whilst abroad and I lost all the photos stored on it, I also live 80 odd miles from the park but I'm sure If I need photos I could obtain them.
I intentionally let the ticket expire by some 15 mins cos I was just trying to be awkward with these pesky PPC'S but I must admit Napier was a new one on me and just thought that I would shoot them down in the tried and trusted way as I had done a few times before with the likes of PE etc.
So,is it the usual soft appeal to them first which I know will be rejected and then request the popla appeal number and put this in with the correctly worded defence attatched?
It surprised me that coupon mad said there was a bit of difference with Napier and I'm still not so sure why but perhaps this will become obvious later.
Husheechee

Umkomaas

I intentionally let the ticket expire by some 15 mins cos I was just trying to be awkward with these pesky PPC'S but I must admit Napier was a new one on me and just thought that I would shoot them down in the tried and trusted way as I had done a few times before with the likes of PE etc.

If you're going to play with fire you'd better be pretty flameproof. Napier are awkward to deal with, they often own or have some similar type of interest in many of the car parks they're involved in and that makes them a whole different kettle of fish to deal with.

Making the assumption that all PPCs are roll-overs suggests you're not experienced enough to

shoot them down in the tried and trusted way as I had done a few times before with the likes of PE etc.

Sorry to have to tell you that with Napier you've managed this time to grab the tiger's tail.

And just in case you get a PE PCN sometime in the future, you should think very hard before trying to shoot them down again. They are now the most litigious PPC in the UK.

Do a search on Willen Lakes, there are other relatively recent threads. Do likewise on PePiPoo as I think they were dealing with this location too. From memory you will need photos of signs (again from memory, there were photos in some of the threads mentioned above).

Get your initial appeal off as per the NEWBIES sticky, then come back when you've got your POPLA code; meantime some research as above will get you ready and prepared for your POPLA appeal.

Guys_Dad

Sorry to say, there are lots of signs on Willen lake; Willen lake is owned by the Parks Trust and, from another unrelated source that I was involved in, the Trust have turned quite money conscious so I would not be surprised if the PPC pays for the concession.

I wouldn't pin much hope on the No Contract point either.

From a press release last year when the Pagoda car park became chargeable #
"David Foster, Chief Executive of The Parks Trust, said: “We appreciate the introduction of car parking charges is not popular with some people but as a self-financing charity we do need to supplement our income if we are to do all the things we want to do. These include keeping our 5,000 acres of parks beautifully maintained, introducing new facilities and building a financially sustainable organisation for the benefit of future generations.”

The funds raised from car parking charges will also allow the Trust to improve car parks at North Willen by installing lighting and bins and introducing security patrols.

The Peace Pagoda and Tree Cathedral car parks will be managed by Napier Parking Ltd on behalf of The Parks Trust."

Coupon-mad

There are photos of the W!llen Lakes signs on other NAp13r threads; search the forum! Also the T&Cs for that car park are online, so Google them and that helps your case (as you will see on other such threads). You have indeed grabbed a Tiger's tail but they can be beaten at POPLA; for now the usual template appeal is OK to use. Can we see the Notice to Keeper please, both sides? NAp!3r will be reading this thread so say NOTHING here nor in any appeal about who was driving.

husheechee

Yes it does seem that I have grabbed the tigers tail!
I don't disagree with the park supplementing their income with a charge for parking,but like many others I disagree with the unethical way PPC'S go about their business(as you may see from from my previous posts) and perhaps my small crusade against them has now changed my approach to all of them and will definitely make me think harder before I grab a tigers tail again !
For now I will put all the reasons why I shake the tigers tail aside and concentrate on challenging this one.
I will search out the relevant photos required,T&C's etc but will put in the initial appeal to obtain the POPLA code.
I will post up the NTK without revealing any incriminating details.
Thanks as always for the sound advice on here and pepipoo.
H

husheechee

Hi,Ive had a good look at the NTK I posted above and I'm not to sure that I can see any discrepancies but I am now about to post my initial appeal to the PPC based on the template letter as posted on the newbies sticky ie not naming the driver but as the registered keeper and requesting a POPLA code.


Before I post my appeal
am I right in thinking that this is the correct initial approach in the first instance?
Many thanks
H

bazster

Yes that's the correct approach, but before you prod the hornet's nest you must remove or further redact those images as there is more than enough information for you to be identified. They deliberately use minutely detailed timings precisely for that reason, so redact all dates and times (or remove the images completely).

husheechee

thanks for the reply bazster,will remove them altogether.
H