First appeal, after receiving NTK

eemma

I am pretty clueless about this stuff, but that's why I'm asking for help and trying to find out more. There's just a lot of information to take in and it can get confusing when it's all new.

I edited my previous post with links to the pictures

Redx

having now looked at your pics in your edited post the windsor one doesnt name the PPC so it appears to refer to just the rules on parking, which as you say seems to be free, so maybe that is a part of their car park and nothing to do with where you actually parked ?

the PCM sign clearly states it is a member of the IPC at the bottom of the sign and indicates the area is for PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY so I think you were in a restricted section of the car park or not the windsor library car park but another one

the windsor pic also states that common reasons for getting a PCN are parking in a restricted area - so maybe that means the permit only area where you parked

in any case, its an IPC PPC as stated on their sign , for permit holders only (which you are not) - hence this pcn

The IPC and IAS is mentioned maybe a dozen times in the NEWBIES sticky thread, plus I linked you to an ongoing IPC and PCM saga earlier by another member going through this process (I am sure there will be other PCM threads on here too)

Coupon-mad

eemma wrote: »

I am pretty clueless about this stuff, but that's why I'm asking for help and trying to find out more. There's just a lot of information to take in and it can get confusing when it's all new.

So that's why in post #3 of the Newbies thread (the top FAQs thread) I show a link to look at if yours is an IPC member! Do you think every newbie who looks at this forum is an expert - NOPE - everyone says 'I am new to this' (pointlessly, of course they are new to it...). But most new posters then move on pretty quickly, read the Newbies thread, using the resources, appeals & links and put a good IAS or POPLA appeal together. So can you, it's just the IAS ones are a bit harder work!

So have a look at the cases where people have won at IAS appeal stage recently because it takes a bit of work but is like putting together evidence for a court defence (it's not so much like a POPLA appeal). Look closely at your Notice to Keeper (wording and dates) and read in particular the PCM cases people have managed to win where the NEW signs are up.

And read the IPC CoP (sorry but you must!):

http://media.wix.com/ugd/bd9e08_a2dad1a02f8ea46a76b78ba0982af9a3.pdf

Pick out the non-compliant stuff that PCM have done. Do this AFTER you have read the examples I mentioned which are linked in post #3 of the Newbies thread, because it will be easier for you to spot the flaws and know how to word your IAS appeal well, if you've read the recent ones where people have won and what they said. Flaws with the NTK are the most likely thing to win I expect so that will be easy as others have posted about PCM NTK letters recently and listed the omissions in wording I am sure.

Redx wrote: »

having now looked at your pics in your edited post the windsor one doesnt name the PPC so it appears to refer to just the rules on parking, which as you say seems to be free, so maybe that is a part of their car park and nothing to do with where you actually parked ?

the PCM sign clearly states it is a member of the IPC at the bottom of the sign and indicates the area is for PERMIT HOLDERS ONLY so I think you were in a restricted section of the car park or not the windsor library car park but another one.

Totally agree Redx.

Question for eemma: are you certain this sign:

http://oi62.tinypic.com/v4whh5.jpg

relates to exactly the same car park as the PCM sign:

http://oi58.tinypic.com/ok4xmg.jpg

...because it doesn't look like it to me at all. The former is a Council sign by the Royal Borough of Windsor and at the bottom it mentions PENALTY charges and contraventions (Council tickets). Then the latter sign on a wall looks to me like a separate area, it's a private parking sign with different rules and no 'penalties' are possible (only parking charge notices).

Are you sure the library car park isn't separate from the scrap of land PCM infest? How clear is it where the private land starts and the library car park ends?

More pics needed please, or a recent Google Street View? This is a point that could win you the appeal, if it isn't clear which part is under the Royal Borough and which part if PCM's happy hunting ground.

We will help you further when you are at IAS stage and you show us the draft IAS appeal you have come up with (NOT your own version of what happened! We want to see your version based on the examples you will have read here, copy stuff others have said, put it together into a draft).

eemma

I have read-and re-read through the newbies thread and thought I had more of an idea of what was going on. A template appeal was sent, but we then received a letter saying they had not received the drivers name or any appeal, and it was too late to name the driver or to appeal. We did send the letter just a few days before the deadline so I can only assume it arrived late?


Then a few days later we have received a letter saying they had received the appeal letter but as previously advised it is now too late for an appeal to be considered. They have said they will not enter into any further correspondence and "please" therefore make the payment within 14 days.

Shouldn't they have given us the option to appeal through IAS? They seem to be implying our only option is to pay them within 14 days.


Not sure what to do next?

Should we write and ask for an IAS appeal?



In response to coupon-mad regarding the signage, we visited the car park and it is possible they are separate car parks. There are three spaces with a PCM sign about 8 foot above them on a nearby wall. In no way are the spaces separated from the car park and the sign is not clearly visible.

Coupon-mad

Think of yourself as the registered keeper and when did that first NTK letter arrive? When did you then send the appeal, what date? You had 21 days from the NTK date to appeal, I think (as you will have read in the IPC CoP). So are they right you were too late or are they counting from the date of the windscreen PCN (that the keeper won't have seen)?

eemma

The NTK was dated (as given) 29/08/14, in this notice it says we have 28 days after the notice is given. We replied on the 25/09/14. It was posted first class, and assumed it would get there in time.

Coupon-mad

Whoops, too late. Silly mistake, Now ignore them unless you get court papers. No posts about debt collector letters...pleeeeease spare us...just search and read about the boring letters! Debt collector letter chains are not unique by any means, so don't post about them please like this person did:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5092569

Not joking, if you get letters from a random debt collector please just search for part of that firm's name - don't post about ignoring such drivel, we don;t need threads like the linked on on this parking forum as debt collector chat clutters up the forum pointlessly.

Get pics of the confusing signs in case the PPC tries a small claim which we can help you defend. Do come back if you do get a LBCCC or court papers.

DO NOT PAY.