Pub Car Park - CPS

Dee140157

Genuine Freudian slip there. That and big fingers with small screen and apple suggestions for words!

Betterthanpar

Dee140157 wrote: »

Ok , if the postal NTK expires next week, time to get the appeal in I think. So go with template appeal for now. Aim ultimately is to get a POPLA code if not a cancellation.

I have just had a pork at their website. The scrolling box of news amused me, as there are 3 news items from this year, but are still scrolling to news as long as 3 years ago!

I have added new items to the initial Appeal letter, mainly because I felt there was not enough focus on the specific circumstances of the incident.
I would appreciate comments on whether they are relevant and helpful to the appeal or not, or whether some of it requires removing.


EVEN MORE SHORTENED TEMPLATE APPEAL

Dear

re PCN number xxxxxxx
I have received your parking invoice.

I decline your invitation to pay or name the driver, neither of which are required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. This is my appeal and liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

A The driver was parked in a completely empty car park for approximately 30 mins., during which time no other vehicles entered. The charge is disproportionately excessive and commercially unjustifiable relative to this event and not a genuine tariff/fee.
B You are not the landowner and do not have locus standi.
C Your signage was not sufficiently prominent nor clearly worded and consideration did not flow from both parties, so there was no contract.
ALL terms are required to be so prominent and the risk of a charge so transparent that the information in its entirety must have been seen/accepted by the driver. No reasonable person would have accepted such onerous parking terms.
The signage is, at best, confusing, at worst, deliberately misleading e.g.
(a) There are no boundaries/limits defining the applicability of the signage, merely the words "This private land"???
(b) The signage frequently mentions the need for "valid CPS Permits" and yet there is no facility provided nor information on how to obtain such permits, so any driver cannot meet the terms of the signage at the point of charge. This cannot be right. In your response to this appeal, I request that you describe the process of obtaining such permits and examples that prove such permit holders actually exist and do use this site.
(c) The sign offers the public the right to park "at a cost of £100 per 24hour period". ("Come into my parlour.........") This equates to about £2.09 for a 30 minute stay.

Collectively, the above 3 examples suggest more than a hint of a system designed to entrap unsuspecting members of the public.


I request that you cancel this invoice, but if you choose not to, you must issue a rejection letter in reply to my appeal, explaining:

1 The legal basis of your charge (i.e. trespass or contractual fee). As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the basis of your allegation.
There is clearly no commercial justification for this punitive charge and no case law to support it.
2 Proof of your locus standi to offer contracts to drivers at this site.
3 Your explanation of the consideration that you believe flowed from the driver, and from yourselves.
4.Your NTK letter is in effect an invoice for a service received from you. In that event, you must follow the law and supply me with an invoice that complies with Government legislation as laid out in the government requirements here https://www.gov.uk/invoicing-and-tak...y-must-include

In particular, I draw you attention to the requirements for a simplified invoice of this amount which clearly states that if your company is VAT registered, you must provide me with your VAT registration number, your full business address and the rate at which VAT is being charged or a statement that the service for which you seek payment is VAT exempt. This is in addition to the requirements for all invoices, again covered in the link I provided in (3) above.
5 The means to make an appeal to POPLA.

A certificate of posting will be obtained for all my written responses.

Coupon-mad

I say send it immediately in the morning, if PTAs can't now help you at this stage. Wonder why...

I want to see if CPS send you a POPLA code in view of this thread I posted in July - I cannot recall a CPS POPLA code at all, ever in 18 months, on this forum since the woman who lost back in Spring 2013 when we were still learning how to win at POPLA:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5017145

If you now also disappear never to post again, we will know that there must indeed be a black hole which swallows such posters. If your Granddaughter gets a POPLA code we'll help with that appeal if we have seen enough pics to see this is genuine. I say that because I wonder why PTAs dropped it...

If you get a strange pm offering to cancel the charge rather than sue your Granddaughter (or similar) then post it here - not everyone's silence can be 'obtained' surely? Not sure who on earth might send such pm's but we have seen some odd ones on this forum over the years so just to warn you.

Main rule - don't post anywhere who was driving!

CPS will have already read this thread (assuming you are genuine and are not Paul S**t or Alex or Perky Perkins) so you may as well go the whole hog and show us photos of the signs and all pages of the letters only minimally redacted so the world doesn't see the car reg and name/address. And if you get a POPLA code then I would ask you in the end to show a scan or link to the actual POPLA letter, whether you win or not (not a copy/paste of wording) so we can see that a CPS case really goes to POPLA.

I fully expect you to now self combust!

Betterthanpar

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I say send it immediately in the morning, if PTAs can't now help you at this stage. Wonder why...

I want to see if CPS send you a POPLA code in view of this thread I posted in July - I cannot recall a CPS POPLA code at all, ever in 18 months, on this forum since the woman who lost back in Spring 2013 when we were still learning how to win at POPLA:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5017145

If you now also disappear never to post again, we will know that there must indeed be a black hole which swallows such posters. If your Granddaughter gets a POPLA code we'll help with that appeal if we have seen enough pics to see this is genuine. I say that because I wonder why PTAs dropped it...

If you get a strange pm offering to cancel the charge rather than sue your Granddaughter (or similar) then post it here - not everyone's silence can be 'obtained' surely? Not sure who on earth might send such pm's but we have seen some odd ones on this forum over the years so just to warn you.

Main rule - don't post anywhere who was driving!

CPS will have already read this thread (assuming you are genuine and are not Paul S**t or Alex or Perky Perkins) so you may as well go the whole hog and show us photos of the signs and all pages of the letters only minimally redacted so the world doesn't see the car reg and name/address. And if you get a POPLA code then I would ask you in the end to show a scan or link to the actual POPLA letter, whether you win or not (not a copy/paste of wording) so we can see that a CPS case really goes to POPLA.

I fully expect you to now self combust!

Please check your pm's - you may have exceeded your quota?

BenefitMaster

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I say send it immediately in the morning, if PTAs can't now help you at this stage. Wonder why...

PTAS can help, however, there's been an NtK sent as well as the initial NtD. Hence it's not the scenario that needed testing out.
It's still being supported under the PTAS umbrella, by me, for free.

Dee140157

Oh ok. Confused again. But as long as you are helping him out, then that is ok. From a pm our understanding was different and this helps clarify.

Coupon-mad

Yep I know what's happening and have freed up a pm space for the OP to show me (please) pics of the signs & PCN and Notice to Keeper documents if he wants to copy both me and BM in. BM is writing the appeal I think but I would like to see the signs and PCN and NTK (both sides, all small print) please.

Betterthanpar

For the record, the appeal letter (as per post#23 - with BM's agreement) has been posted, and a certificate of posting obtained.

Betterthanpar

This is now resolved. Thanks to all contributors, with particular thanks to BM and CM.

aliasface

HELP! Sorry to hijack this thread, Ive been given a CPS parking ticket. I very much don't want to pay it. I'm on the scrounge for some help!! I'm not a spy, honest. I just don't want to pay the blinking charge and my brain has been frazzled reading the advice on here! Will start a new thread if I need to but figured all the info/people I need are on this one