No Mains Gas Supply

davidelong

Hi, I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. So please excuse me if I have posted in the wrong place or have missed a post that would have answered my question.

Here goes.

I'm about to move into a listed building (built 1532), it only has mains electricity, so it has storage heaters (which I believe will be expensive to run). There is no mains gas, as the property is rural.

The property is spread over 3 floors, it has 4 rooms on the ground floor (kitchen, utility and two reception rooms), one bedroom an on-suite and a family bathroom on the second floor and two further bedrooms on the third floor). It has one log burner and an electric cooker.

I believe my best option will be LPG?, by means of a outside tank. A combi boiler and radiators. Unless someone can advice otherwise. I have looked to renewable sources, but they rarely work on older building.

My question is what is the likely cost? Am I better off buying my own tank or have someone like Calor do a full installation? I have seen tanks available from as much as £3000 to as little as £1500 or even second hand ones (an example is one on ebay that is 1,500 litres, above ground and is £700)

I also have an outbuilding that I intend working from that will also need feeding from the same tank with an additonal combi boiler and at least 4 further radiators.

Any help advice would be much appreciated and I'm pretty much shooting in the dark with this!

PS I'm based in North Birmingham if anyone has good advice and contacts in the local area.

Smiley_Dan

Well, as ever, "it depends", but your best option may be oil rather than LPG. Take a look at this of comparative costs per kWh of energy: http://www.nottenergy.com/energy_cost_comparison/energy_comparison_data/july_2014 . LPG is more expensive than kerosene. But that said you never know where prices will go.

How long are you expected to be in the house? Could you calculate your current heat loss from the house (http://www.arca53.dsl.pipex.com/index_files/tt7.htm)? Is insulating a possibility (especially externally)?

It may be worth spending more now to derive savings later if you are staying around.

But the low risk answer is oil.

Cardew

Welcome to the forum.


Why do you believe your best option will be LPG? Most of the contributors to MSE want rid of the system. Also having it installed by Calor means you will be held to ransom in future supplies.


Storage heating on an E7 tariff is not too expensive - probably cheaper than LPG. However it has limitations and many people dislike it with a vengeance.


Oil CH IMO is far preferable to LPG.


Given it is an old building, with presumably poor insulation?? I doubt a heat pump will be suitable.


Why not give the existing storage heating a trial over the winter, noting consumption carefully and make a decision next year.


P.S. It goes without saying that measures to improve insulation, within the constraints of listed building regs, should be the first priority.

davidelong

Cardew wrote: »

Welcome to the forum.


Why do you believe your best option will be LPG? Most of the contributors to MSE want rid of the system. Also having it installed by Calor means you will be held to ransom in future supplies.


Storage heating on an E7 tariff is not too expensive - probably cheaper than LPG. However it has limitations and many people dislike it with a vengeance.


Oil CH IMO is far preferable to LPG.


Given it is an old building, with presumably poor insulation?? I doubt a heat pump will be suitable.


Why not give the existing storage heating a trial over the winter, noting consumption carefully and make a decision next year.


P.S. It goes without saying that measures to improve insulation, within the constraints of listed building regs, should be the first priority.

Thanks for the response. I dare say most contributors to MSE want to get rid of LPG because they rent the tanks and are tied to a high price contract - hence the question, should I buy the tank?

Storage heating is not my only concern, I much prefer combi boilers, hot water as and when you need it as opposed to an hour after you switch them on. I was looking to kill two birds with one stone.

Smiley_Dan

While on-demand water heating is generally good it doesn't cover all cases. How many people in the house? It sounds like a family home and there are limits to how many showers can be serviced at once.

As I said above I really think you should think long term about this.

J_B

Just a few 'in my opinion' type comments ...

E7 is not that expensive for heating a tank of water as long as it's well insulated
Storage heaters are not that expensive compared to LPG, but are far less controllable. They are also much cheaper to install (well, they were) and as you already have them .....

Oil boilers are more expensive than gas ones.
I would guess that an oil tank would be cheaper than a gas tank???

What renewables have you looked at?
Could your 'business' qualify for Non-dom RHI?

How far 'North of Birmingham'??

Ectophile

davidelong wrote: »

Storage heating is not my only concern, I much prefer combi boilers, hot water as and when you need it as opposed to an hour after you switch them on. I was looking to kill two birds with one stone.

If you want to save money, you'd be buying an extra-large hot water tank, then heating it overnight on Economy 7.

albyota

Hi Davidelong, if I were in your situation, I would seriously consider a pellet boiler, this would serve a wet radiator heating system and all domestic hot water, you would need to have an area to house the boiler and pellet store, approx 5m x 3 m, access for lorry to deliver pellets, RHI, renewable heat incentive payable on GDA EPC, say 45,000 kWh/yr would pay £5,490 per year for 7 years, fuel cost - approx 9.3 tonnes of pellets per year, £2,140/yr

Look at ETA or Herz pellet boilers

AL

Ebe_Scrooge

I would say oil over LPG every time - though wood pellets would also be worth investigating.

If you go for oil, get the largest tank you can. The idea being that if you can store a year's worth of oil, you can pick and choose when you buy. It's generally quite a bit cheaper in the summer, but you can watch the prices and buy when it's cheapest, rather than being stuck in the situation when you're running low in winter and have to pay higher prices to fill up then.

I'm sure there are rules 'n' regs about how much you're allowed to store on a domestic premises - I don't know, you'd have to investigate that one. But get the biggest tank you can.

thozza

You might take a look through the sticky thread 'Bulk LPG' at the top of the forum, there are a number of messages about purchasing own LPG tanks, start with these posts

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=63676643&postcount=2121

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=66226921&postcount=2322

captainhindsight_2

Your best option without a doubt would be biomass boilers, they are expensive and can be quite big but the fuel costs are considerably less than LPG and oil and the gap is likely to get bigger year on year.

And in addition to the fuel savings you can claim RHI payments which are currently very generous and give a pay back of between 4-6 years for a domestic biomass installation.

So over a relatively short period of time the boiler has paid or it's self and you have a much cheaper fuel.

With a well designed hopper and delivery system, it is no different to LPG or oil in terms of deliveries the only difference is you just have to empty the ash tray a couple of times a year.