changing windows - structural calculations for lintol

stressedashell

Hi,

Has anyone had any experience with window companies who also arrange the building work?

(Disclaimer - this is our first property, and all this sort of thing is new to us....so if any ridiculously stupid points/questions, be gentle)

We're getting some works done which require removal of bricks to enlarge and slightly relocate one window - so a new lintol will be needed to support above....

As we'd paid the company one fee for all building + window installation works, we had assumed (possibly wrongly) that the window company surveyor would deal with doing a structural calculation to instruct the builder what lintol would be suitable, but just before the work started the company have advised they did not actually do any sort of calc - and that was our responsibility to....As it's really a process that's in-between the 2 services we've paid for (building and installation works) am I being unreasonable in assuming they would/should have done this for a job that would clearly require building regs approval?*

It's ended up that we're having to get an independent structural engineer out on very short notice to advise on the lintol and provide calculations etc for the building and council building regs...

*Window company surveyor/director is absolutely adament that the work being done doesn't need building regs approval and all work (inluding building) would come under the Fensa guarantee (and they are taking the stance that the fact they haven't done any calculations to advise the builder isn't the issue - but in fact the issue is that we contacted Building Regs when we didn't need to?), but I've since checked and both Fensa guidance and Building regs guidance state that for removal of bricks and lintols etc - that you should definitely get this check done.

Their contract does state that building regs issues aren't part of the contract or their responsibility, and we're happy to deal with all that application etc - I'm more interested in establishing whether it's standard practice for a window company to issue their builder instructions without actually doing any structural calculations?

We'll know better than to assume next time, but I'm just interested on other peoples experiences....

Thanks

Doozergirl

Wow. Enlarging the width of a window is of course subject to building control.

As a building company, we deal with it all from our end and get the windows supplied and fitted. Our window people don't organise building control or structural calcs, they'd refer back to a builder.

It's amazing how many companies don't seem to tell customers what is involved or actually price a job properly. We've just had it where we were up against other FMB builders who didn't price in building control or a structural engineer?!

stressedashell

The builder the window company use seemingly isn't qualified to do structural calculations....and the 'surveyor' at the window company isn't either...

We believed we were paying for the full package and I just can't understand how a surveyor can instruct a builder to do structural work he hasn't actually calculated!?

I find it fairly unbelievable that a director/surveyor of an established (and fairly large) local window company wouldn't be aware that building regs is required for brick-removal/replacement lintol.

Doozergirl

Only a structural engineer is qualified to do structural calculations for building control.

stressedashell

That'll do it then...

ah well, we'll have to suck up the extra £££ and know for next time...

Furts

stressedashell wrote: »

That'll do it then...

ah well, we'll have to suck up the extra £££ and know for next time...

You could try deducting the cost of the structural engineer from the payment to the window company. Whilst not good practice, this does give you room to negotiate. They have given you bad advice, they are implicated in an awkward situation with you. The ball is in your court.

Doozergirl

Furts wrote: »

You could try deducting the cost of the structural engineer from the payment to the window company. Whilst not good practice, this does give you room to negotiate. They have given you bad advice, they are implicated in an awkward situation with you. The ball is in your court.

I agree. It's either bad practice or sharp practice.

stressedashell

Furts wrote: »

You could try deducting the cost of the structural engineer from the payment to the window company. Whilst not good practice, this does give you room to negotiate. They have given you bad advice, they are implicated in an awkward situation with you. The ball is in your court.

Had considered this, but they won't issue Fensa cert until paid so I don't know how much joy we'll have on this front...

If we weren't thinking about these types of issues, I suspect we'd have just done all the work, never informed Building Regs and then ended up in trouble when we try to sell the flat in future...

So, in the whole scheme of things could be worse I guess. Just hadn't budgetted extra £200+vat on engineer calcs at the moment...

cyclonebri1

Doozergirl wrote: »

Only a structural engineer is qualified to do structural calculations.

But isn't that only where it falls outside normal accepted design limits?

A certain span in a single or double story home has a certain beam ability requirement.. I'm sure there is an accepted standard somewhere for this.

Furts

cyclonebri1 wrote: »

But isn't that only where it falls outside normal accepted design limits?

A certain span in a single or double story home has a certain beam ability requirement.. I'm sure there is an accepted standard somewhere for this.

I suspect it is too late for OP to change course, but the standard lintel manufacturers (eg Catnic, IG) do this FOC (provided they are given the necessary info.) I have used this service many times for buildings. Hence, no structural engineers fees.

For large openings (beyond the scope of normal Catnic, IG etc.)I have gone to a local steel workshop that designs and makes for a fixed price, complete with calculations. Again, no structural engineers fees.

stressedashell

I wish I had not read that....!