4 Parking fines

dinara

Hi, i recieved 4 parking fines in 1 week while holiday clothes shopping for the family at a retail park in stockport i had to return and exchange a few items that is why i visited on a number of occasions.
I have not been to this retail park for a number of years and to my knowledge it was a free carpark. this has obviously now changed, i did not notice any signs or machines, although i did park outside the one shop i went in on all occasions.
I have appealed all four notices which have been declined.

They would now like me to pay £360 by the 27th August or i can appeal to POPLA.

I am unsure as to how to proceed, should i just pay? appeal to POPLA or just ignore?

Any advice would be great thanks in advance

Browntoa

newbies thread at the top of this part of the forum

take a read

popla appeal , use the templates in the newbies thread

no mitigating stuff to popla or the parking company , just the standard templates

Redx

this is probably the Peel Centre , Stockport and is infamous due to these sc*ms by Excel , it comes up on here almost daily and the advice is a well worn path now

these are not fines at all by the way, so you definitely do not have 4 fines in your possession

you have 4 speculative invoices for parking on a private pay and display car park and not purchasing any p&d ticket, so the anpr cameras have clocked you in and out and yet no reg number was put in at the ticket machine, hence the postal pcn,s

you appeal in the normal manner, same as the hundreds of others that have been caught out on there over the years

full details are in the newbies STICKY THREAD at the top of this forum , with a flow chart too, so please read it and follow it , especially post #3 if you have 4 popla codes

thanks

dinara

Hi, many thanks i have submitted an appeal to POPLA as below, hope its ok.

Just one more question. On closer inspection of the PCN's, the dates of the offences on three are in the july on consecutive dates, the forth is in january?? but date of issue is in the July?. I now recall nipping in there on this occasion and if i had received a PCN in the january I would not have then gone on to repeat the offence.

Dear Sir/Madam,
RE: POPLA xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx

Civil Parking Notice (CPN): xxxx
Vehicle Reg: xxxx
Date of Issue:xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx
Company in question: EXCEL PARKING

This was the driver’s first visit to the Peel Center. It is an out of town shopping centre The driver revisited the shopping center on the said number of occasions to return and exchange goods bought for a family holiday. The driver was concentrating on ensuring they were in the correct place and then on finding H&M in order to park nearby. The signs were too high and not adequately lighted and thus were not noticed on any occasion otherwise the driver would have paid.

Seven days later , the registered keeper, received a charge for £60/£100 (£60 if played promptly). The driver was caught driving in and out by an ANPR camera. I, as the register keeper, submited an appeal to Excel, they confirmed receipt of my appeal, their response was dated 12th August 2014, however due to being delivered by 2nd class post this was not received until 14th August 2014.

I now want to set out why I'd like you to cancel this charge:

'Excel's legal capacity to enforce/issue Parking Charge Notices'

Firstly I would like to point out that, in their correspondence with me, Excel haven't produced any evidence to demonstrate that they have the necessary legal capacity to charge the driver of a vehicle using the car park. Nor that they have any proprietary interest in this particular piece of land at Stockport peel center.

Accordingly, I kindly ask you to check whether or not Excel have provided an up-to date, signed copy of the contract or agreement with the landowner – one which states that they are entitled to pursue these matters through issuing PCNs and through the courts. I'd require that this is an actual copy and not simply a document which claims that such a contract or agreement exists.

'Trespass'

If there is no contract, then at most I was guilty of a civil trespass. If this was the case, I would be liable to damages. Given that I did no damage to the car park and the car park was not full when I parked or when I left, it is suggested that there was no loss at all.

'Unlawful Penalty Charge'

Since there was no demonstrable loss/damage and yet a breach of contract has been alleged, it can only remain a fact that this 'charge' is an attempt at dressing up an unlawful penalty to impersonate a parking ticket. This is similar to the decisions in several County Court cases such as Excel Parking Services v Hetherington-Jakeman (2008), also OB Services v Thurlow (review,February 2011), Parking Eye v Smith (Manchester County Court December 2011) and UKCPS v Murphy (April 2012) .

On the basis of all the points I have raised, this 'charge' fails to meet the standards set out in paragraph 19 of the BPA CoP and also fails to comply with the CPUTR 2008, the UTCCR 1999, the Equality Act 2010 and basic contract law.

'The charge is a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss'.

Given that the duration of stay was recorded at xx minutes, and the tariff set by the operator for a 1-2 hour stay is just £1, then the amount of the“penalty” imposed is disproportionate to any alleged “loss” by Excel Parking,and is therefore punitive, contravening the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1997.

The £100 charge asked for, far exceeds the cost to the landowner for the time my car was parked there. The charge cannot be construed as anything but a punitive penalty. In the appeal Excel did not address this issue, and has not stated why they feel a £100 charge is an appropriate pre-estimate of loss. For this charge to be justified a full breakdown of the costs Excel has suffered as a result of the car being parked at the car park is required and should add up to £100. Normal expenditure the company incurs to carry on their business (e.g.provision of parking, parking enforcement, signage erection, salaries and office rent) should not be included in the breakdown, as these operational costs would have been suffered irrespective of the car being parked at that carpark.

It was found in the case of Vehicle Control Services Ltd vs Mr R Ibbotson ( 16th May 2012) that general business costs cannot constitute a loss and also has been held to be the case in a number of very recent compelling and comparable decisions against Excel, when similar cases have been considered by POPLA.

'Unclear And Non-Complaint Signage'

Due to their high position, bright colours, distracting pictograms and the barely legible size of the small print, the signs in this car park are very hard to read and understand, especially after hours/after dark. At no point was sufficiently informed by any signs that the pay and display duration period had changed.

I contend that the signs and any core parking terms Excel are relying upon were too small for any driver to see, read or understand when driving into the carpark. I request that POPLA should check the Operator's evidence and signage map/photos on this point and compare the signs to the BPA Code of Practice requirements. I contend that the signs and machines in that car park (wording,position, clarity) do not comply and fail to properly warn/inform the driver of the terms and any consequences for breach, as in the case of Excel Parking Services Ltd v Martin Cutts, 2011

'ANPR Section Of The BPA Code Of Practice'

I further contend that Excel have failed to show me any evidence that the cameras in this car park comply with the requirements of the BPA Code of Practice part 21 (ANPR) and would require POPLA to consider that particular section of the Code in its entirety and decide whether the Operator has shown proof of contemporaneous manual checks and full compliance with section 21 of the Code, in its evidence.

‘Complaints, challenges and appeals Section of The BPA Code Of Practice'
I further contend that Excel have failed to reply to my appeal and request for POPLA reference with 35 days of receipt of my appeal as per the requirements of the BPA Code of Practice part 22 (Complaints, challenges and appeals). I would require POPLA to consider that particular section of the Code in its entirety and decide whether the Operator has shown proof of full compliance with section 22 of the Code, in its evidence.


I respectfully request that this appeal to be allowed.
Many Thanks

Yours Sincerly

xxxxxxxx

Gemlou

Did you appeal them as 4 separate instances? Only asking as each separate appeal costs them in the region of £30 and it's satisfying to know that although you've had to take the time to appeal to popla it's cost them £120 to cause you that inconvenience.

Redx

appeal each PCN separately using separate popla codes if you have them from Excel, even if its the same appeal

there are recent popla appeals that are tailor made for the Peel centre so all the work is already done as long as you have each code separately

Hot_Bring

I'd suggest that appeal has a 50/50 chance at best of success. Why no GPEOL ???????????

Edit - OK it is there, sort of, not very obvious though so you'll have to hope POPLA spot it.

Redx

I would suggest an additional upload to POPLA and add the details in the Excel Peel centre template example appeal that 99% of people now use from here

not a gpeol is CRUCIAL to any peel centre appeal , as is no contract

I think it should be added as additional evidence, not just hope the popla assessor spots it in the unlawful penalty charge by clairvoyance

when excel send in their evidence pack, all the standard rebuttals need to be used AND the not a gpeol pointed out too, reinforcing this point

ampersand

Which January for the fourth pretend demand? Is it 2014, preceding the 3 July dated ones?
Use full dates every time.

Don't use 'I'd'etc - no abbreviations. Use 'The appellant requires' etc.

non-compliant, not non-complaint

'my car' - no, the vehicle.

Again, you i.d. yourself as driver here:

then at most I was guilty of a civil trespass.
and
'Given that I did no damage to the car park and the car park was not full when I parked or when I left, it is suggested that there was no loss at all.
#
dinara, it needs de-personalising, editing, stronger grasp of sentence structure and grammar.

Use the tightly disciplined points and para structures as guided by Redx#3 and #6.
You are being told this because they work.

You can't use this:
At no point was sufficiently informed by any signs that the pay and display duration period had changed.
It's not a sentence and doesn't work. although I know what you mean. How would/Why should a ppc know when you last visited?

The point is irrelevant anyway and implies driver i.d again.
Non-compliant signage is what you're nailing here, so get stuck in - pics to back up your description?

As it stands, I'm afraid it's a messy read, lacking strength in the main winning point: GPEOL[as others have already told you]
It doesn't matter that dealing with this sort of letter isn't your strength, but it DOES matter that what you submit is clear and well-written, hits the target with every appeal point and follows the customary road to success.

It's all in the newbies Threads, so go back and read again, copy/cut/paste, and fill in the relevant 'dinara' details.

gemlou's point re: costing the scumpany 4x£silly can be your first satisfaction:-)

It's hardly extra work, although we all know your head scrambles after a while.
Don't you think that's precisely what these scumpanies rely on? They love to frighten, bewilder, lie, threaten, to 'encourage' you to roll over and pay, So, just 4 copies, with dates/pcn/ times tailored to suit.

List and number your Grounds of Appeal under your particulars.

Then, take each numbered heading and deal with it.

Let us see them again before you send anything.

You don't need 'I further contend,' in successive paragraphs.

Don't write 'Many Thanks' and y/s. These letters need 'Yours faithfully', only - and no capital 'f'.

Redx

the most annoying part for me is there is an up to date (2 weeks old) template letter for the Peel centre , Stockport and Excel here

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/64393064#Comment_64393064

there is no work needed with the Peel centre , its all done for them

times 4 , times 44 , doesnt really matter

dinara

Hi

Thanks for the replys i have only submitted one, i will submit three more with a revised letter, the one i used was cut and pasted to be honest off here, i'm very confused and overwhelmed with all the information, as in not sure what to include etc.

I have two degrees yet no clue what GPEOL is?

Help is much appreciated thou, and I will ensure I post the next letter before submission

Thank you