Best proof of postage?

DBrown67

About to send off my first appeal to the PPC. Need to get proof of postage but I'm sure I've read here not to send by recorded delivery. Is this because they refuse to sign for anything generally?

If I get a receipt for postage that will only prove I sent the item, not that they received it. I've been scammed on Ebay before where buyer says they didn't receive the item and having postage receipts means nothing.

So what's the best way for PPCs?

Redx

correct on all counts

a recorded delivery refusal only proves that they did NOT receive it, whereas a free certificate of posting has the destination on it and is the free proof (receipt or contract) by the Post Office that an item was posted to that address

obviously they dont know what was inside and it could be a blank sheet of paper but the law states it is deemed "delivered" 2 days later

its also the method the PPC used in contacting YOU with an NTK

SO IDEALLY YOU WOULD USE AN ONLINE APPEAL AND HOPE TO GET AN AUTO RESPONSE, OR TAKE A SCREENSHOT

but for snail mail, a free certificate of posting is the best method, keeping the receipt safe in case of problems in the future

or do it online as well as with a FCOP from the PO by snail mail (ie:- twice)

just do not post it in a normal post box as there is no proof anything was sent at all

The_Deep

If you write "cheque enclosed" on the envelope I expect they will sign..

Nodding_Donkey

A free proof of postage from the Post Office is all you need. Yes you are correct. Some PPCs refuse to sign for recorded deliveries.

bazster

How do you know you were scammed on eBay? Maybe the buyer really didn't receive the item?

There is a big difference between on the one hand sending goods that you've sold and on the other hand sending papers which may have legal significance but no intrinsic value. The law on goods sent (by any method) is that they remain the property of the seller until accepted by the buyer, so if they get lost in the post it's the seller's loss. If you are not prepared to risk that loss then you must send the goods by an adequately-insured, and possibly signed-for service (depending on value). Unsurprisingly if there is no proof of delivery eBay/PayPal will always side with the buyer, and you've lost your money unless you can get it back from the Royal Mail.

You do realise that all items sent by Royal Mail are automatically insured for a small amount, providing you can show proof of posting and evidence of the value of the contents? Higher levels of insurance come with the various signed-for services.

So if you sent something that the buyer claims not to have received, and you didn't get your money back from Royal Mail, then you failed to understand the postal system and the available insurance cover, as anyone should before they start selling on eBay. You are not alone in this though. In particular many eBay sellers try to make "insurance" an optional extra, even though this is unlawful: goods remain the seller's property whilst in transit, so the seller can't make the buyer responsible for the seller's liability.

A letter is completely different because it has no intrinsic value and the question of compensation does not arise. The law says that simply posting a properly-stamped and addressed letter is sufficient for service to be deemed to have occurred, unless it can be proved otherwise (which is almost impossible of course: how can someone prove that they didn't receive a letter?).

According to the letter of the law you don't even need proof of posting, but since this is free at the Post Office you might as well get it to save hassle later. As an example, DVLA loves trying to fine people for not notifying change of ownership of a vehicle when, in most cases, DVLA itself has simply lost the mail. But DVLA has never successfully prosecuted where the seller has simply given a sworn affidavit that they did send the notification.

DBrown67

OK thanks for the replies. Must say a very swift response on here. :T

I will get the free proof of postage then. I've already sent my appeal on line and got a reply stating that all appeals must be made in writing and that they would not accept the online contact as an appeal. Dunno how that stands in law but at least I have an email acknowledgment that they did receive it in that manner.

Only thing is I've tweaked the appeal and made it better (in my eyes) so it's now different to the one sent via email. But the contents are basically the same, especially the very late arrival of the NTKs, which is my main point.

A secondary point... I have explicitly asked for two POPLA codes if they reject these appeals as I am fighting two different NTKs. Is this correct? They were for two separate incidents two weeks apart... but both NTKs arrived the same day and VERY late. I don't even need to prove they arrived late, they are actually dated 21 days and 36 days after the incidents occurred!

Fruitcake

DBrown67 wrote: »

OK thanks for the replies. Must say a very swift response on here. :T

I will get the free proof of postage then. I've already sent my appeal on line and got a reply stating that all appeals must be made in writing and that they would not accept the online contact as an appeal. Dunno how that stands in law but at least I have an email acknowledgment that they did receive it in that manner.

Only thing is I've tweaked the appeal and made it better (in my eyes) so it's now different to the one sent via email. But the contents are basically the same, especially the very late arrival of the NTKs, which is my main point.

A secondary point... I have explicitly asked for two POPLA codes if they reject these appeals as I am fighting two different NTKs. Is this correct? They were for two separate incidents two weeks apart... but both NTKs arrived the same day and VERY late. I don't even need to prove they arrived late, they are actually dated 21 days and 36 days after the incidents occurred!

Correct, one appeal for each NTK.


Did you make two initial appeals or did you combine them? As long as you quoted both PCNs you should be OK on this but one of the experts can probably give better advice.

DBrown67

My initial appeal to PPC was a combined appeal to cover both NTKs. But I did explicitly state each NTK reference number and also included photocopies of each NTK highlighting the late dates on each. I also amended the template so it read plural instead of single as you went through it and asked for a POPLA code for each reference number if the appeals are rejected.

Stroma

You appeal both of them separately on different pieces of paper, send them in the same envelope if you wish though, and make sure you get the proof of postage, and put on each appeal that you have this proof. Which parking company is it? And we are talking England or Wales here?

Umkomaas

Sending one appeal covering two NtKs is a risky strategy. You should always deal with each NtK as a separate entity.

Once a PPC sees a forum assisted initial appeal they'll be pretty sure that a POPLA appeal will be similarly assisted and a likely defeat for them there. So many PPCs are reluctant to release POPLA codes; an excuse not to issue two (on the basis of only getting one appeal) might be an opportunity too good to miss for them!

Redx

DBrown67 wrote: »

My initial appeal to PPC was a combined appeal to cover both NTKs. But I did explicitly state each NTK reference number and also included photocopies of each NTK highlighting the late dates on each. I also amended the template so it read plural instead of single as you went through it and asked for a POPLA code for each reference number if the appeals are rejected.

the problem here is that you are expecting the people reading your appeal to have a brain cell and understand the nuances and grammatical terminology employed, which is a bit much when they live in narnia and only speak klingon and only write romulan

simplicity is the watch word here, one letter, one appeal, 2 letters for 2 appeals, no assuming the person at the other end will bother to read it before dragging out a template response and changing the name Smith to whatever the RK is called

if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys !