Are these contract terms outdated?

G_M

SerialRenter wrote: »

Correct. from "The twenty fourth day of August 2013" to "the twenty third day of August 2014"

It's a supplemental agreement i've been offered which states it'll run for a further 12 months.
"The term of the principal agreement shall be extended for a further period expiring on the 23rd August 2015"
If you do decide to sign a new contract, I would forget this 'supplemental agreement' and request a new 12 months with a current start date (so as to avoid paying the rent increase from back in August).


There is no clause regarding rent increases. The only term relevent to a further turn reads as follows:
"It is agreed that the tenant shall pay an administrative renewal fee of £25.00 plus VAT to X prior to the commencement of a further term."
hmm.... £25 plus VAT.... see below

I did, on the 23/05/2013.
Just to be clear - this was the 'security' or 'damage' deposit, refundable at end of tenancy? NOT a 'holding' deposit to reserve the property till you move in?

Does the tenancy agreement mention the deposit amount? Does the amount mentioned match the amount paid in May?

TDS, the certificate states it was recived on the 24th August 2013.
I double checked on the TDS website, and it looks like they've renewed it and put the expected end date as a further 12 months from the end of the fixed term.
So deposit paid on 23 May and registered on 24th August. That is more than 30 days, so the landlord (and his agent) failed to comply with the law. That means
a) if you are served a S21 Notice it will be invalid and
b) if you wish you could sue for 3 times the deposit


I have the "Tenancy Deposit Protection Certificate", but nothing more. I have no recollection of reciving a leaflet and it's not within my archives.
As above, if you did not receive the PI then the penalties apply.


£20 + £5 VAT
Hmmmm..... £20 + VAT..... which is it?


I've never had any contact with the Landlord, although i do have their address, so i'm tempted to write them a letter to clarify that i'm willing to stay in the property, pay the rent increase, but would rather remain on a periodic tenancy, and how the letting agents have failed.


Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors
National Association of Estate Agents
Association of Residential Letting Agents
Ombudsmen Services Property

Cheers for the help

Your contact is with the LL, not the agent. So no reason not to approach him. But be polite!

Bear in mind, some LLs
* are ignorant of the law, the options etc, and rely on their agents
* prefer to be hands-off and refer everything to their agents

But many/most LLs would welcome hearing of their agents failings, and welcome the opportunity to smooth over problems and keep their tenant happy.

SerialRenter

Sorry, misread the receipt, thats an 08, not a 05! The letting agent doesn't have the most legible of hand writing.

The deposit was paid the day before i moved in.

I paid a lump sum that covered all elements of the admin and deposit. They provided me with a breakdown of all the costs.
The amount listed under deposit matches the tenancy agreement.

G_M

OK - then ignore my suggestion that the deposit registration was late.

theartfullodger

G_M wrote: »

Shelter Legal gave me a fairly catagorical answer on a matter jjlandlord & I had debated (disputed), namely a tenant's ability to end a SPT at the end of the first period.

Still not fully resolved, and unlikely to be till it goes to a higher court (or someone points to an existing case)

,,,,,,,,,,,

That's an interesting one:

Did Shelter take the line that a tenant's notice must expire on either the last or 1st day of tenancy period ( Crate v Miller 1947 )& be at least a tenancy period .... therefore if served on 1st day of SPT it can expire on 1st day of next SPT so is at least tenancy period??

Suspect that line of argument is correct, but as you say it needs a test case...

G_M

theartfullodger wrote: »

That's an interesting one:

Did Shelter take the line that a tenant's notice must expire on either the last or 1st day of tenancy period ( Crate v Miller 1947 )& be at least a tenancy period .... therefore if served on 1st day of SPT it can expire on 1st day of next SPT so is at least tenancy period??

Suspect that line of argument is correct, but as you say it needs a test case...

That's what they said.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Laine v Cadwallader[/FONT]


Crate v Miller

But we really shouldn't hijack the OP's thread again.....

jjlandlord

That's been discussed before:
The fact that a notice can be written as expiring on last or first day of period does not change anything regarding the notice period because these 2 dates have the same effect.
Using the first day instead of the last day does not magically increase the notice period by one day!
(Plus in Crate v. Miller the notice given was more than one period anyway)

The question is simply whether serving notice on the first day of a period gives enough notice to end the tenancy at the end of that very period.

SerialRenter

G_M wrote: »

But we really shouldn't hijack the OP's thread again.....

Please do, it's of intrest to me as well.

G_M

SerialRenter wrote: »

Please do, it's of intrest to me as well.

Ending a SPT after a single period

• A tenant has a 6 month fixed term Assured Shorthold Tenancy starting on, say, 15th September expiring on 14th March.
• Rent is payable monthly.
• The tenant does not wish to leave, or end the tenancy, at the end of the fixed term.
• However the tenant wishes to leave, & end the tenancy, a month later (14th April).
• The tenant stays, and on 15th March a Statutory Periodic Tenancy arises
• The tenant cannot give notice to end the SPT until it has commenced, so the earliest date notice can be served is 15th March.
• Notice by a tenant to end a monthly SPT “must be [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]equal to at least a period of the tenancy and expiring at the end of the period of the tenancy“ [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]([/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Laine v Cadwallader[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif])[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].[/FONT]
• Notice served on 15th March & expiring on 14th April would be less than a period of the tenancy, meaning the earliest possible date to end the SPT would be 14th May

However:

• Notice can expire on either the last, or first, day of a tenancy period. The tenancy would still end on the last day of the period (Crate v Miller).
• Notice served on the 1st day of a period and expiring on the 1st day of the subsequent period would be [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]equal to at least a period of the tenancy, and would thus be valid[/FONT]
• [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]So notice served on 15[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]th[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] March and expiring 15[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]th[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] April would end the tenancy on 14[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]th[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif] April[/FONT]

True or false? Unresolved though as I said, Shelter Legal claim true.

jjlandlord

It is not a good idea to merge facts and opinions in a single blob worded as if everything was fact, with a little disclaimer at the end

Still not answer to the key issue, as formulated in my previous post.

Certainly, I don't see how that claim can be right:

Notice served on the 1st day of a period and expiring on the 1st day of the subsequent period would be equal to at least a period of the tenancy, and would thus be valid.

.

theartfullodger

G_M wrote: »

... True or false? Unresolved though as I said, Shelter Legal claim true.

I'd say true & would back Shelter Legal against the internet spume of landlord/agent posts.... But until a test case we won't know for sure.

The chances of tenants getting the wording, dating & service correct may not be that great, however...

Thought you were a LL GM and that Shelter didn't advise LLs....

Cheers!