Are these contract terms outdated?

G_M

There is noprblem with a backdated agreement. The contract start date should show the historic date you have both agreed for it to start, and you should show todays date on signature.

The issue, of course, is that you will owe back-rent as well as the new rent going forward.

still insisting i pay the rent increase for the period i've been periodic

just ignore.

insisting they "Don't do periodic, it's resign or eviction

well, yes, they could serve a S21 Notie and evict you. That is the disadvantage of periodic tenancies - no security.

But bear in mind that it is the agent threatening this. They actually make more money by evicting you, since they will charge check-out fee, new marketing fee to LL, new contract fee (LL & tenant?), new tenant checking fees etc etc - it's all profit.

The landlord, of course, loses money, since the property will be empty for a while (no rent) and he has to pay the agent all those fees....

So a lot depends
a) whether the LL actually knows what is happening
b) whether the agent is bamboozelling an amateur LL who, for example, does not understand SPTs and takes the agents word.

FurAndFins

Hi SerialRenter

Have they actually put the proposed new rent in writing to you yet? Or is it all just telephone calls thus far and faulty new TAs? They need to propose in writing first, with due notice.

www(dot)gov(dot)uk/private-renting/rent-increases

(Sorry, as a newbie, I'm not allowed to post links)
These Letting Agents have obviously snoozed and lost. Someone is just getting shirty to cover their blunder (allowing an SPT to arise). The Agency boss wants the difference in rent to show on the spreadsheet. Personally, I'd say I was going to advise the LL to change Letting Agents as they've left the LL vulnerable to your leaving and peed you off with 're-sign or eviction' tactics. I bet the poor LL is blissfully unaware of all this and would want to keep a good tenant like you on board.

I wouldn't backdate anything as they haven't followed due process. You are currently paying what you've agreed to pay. Backdating the TA and paying over and above what you have agreed to pay is ludicrous IMHO. Also, will there be new clauses in there that each party may have already unwittingly breached? You haven't even seen the final draft yet...

You can also invite An Officer of Fair Rent (Local Council) to visit your home to ensure it's not too high an increase. You can use this service (I believe) once every 24 months.

theartfullodger

FurAndFins wrote: »

Hi SerialRenter

Have they actually put the proposed new rent in writing to you yet? Or is it all just telephone calls thus far and faulty new TAs? They need to propose in writing first, with due notice.

.....

No they don't. Further, in E&W a tenancy of less than 3 years doesn't even have to be in writing!

I can 'phone a tenant & say "Rent is going up £100 a month". Tenant can agree - or negotiate a compromise, we agree a figure & he starts paying. Nothing required in writing (but the wise landlord & tenant would want written confirmation).

What is true is if tenant declines increase, the landlord to enforce increase must do so via written s13 notice... which can then be challenged...

FurAndFins

I stand corrected, theartfullodger. Good to know! I was just regurgitating what I had been told by Shelter.

I thought to myself...."I know that answer" (obviously not!)

G_M

As artful says, for a new rent to be imposed by a landlord, it must be done in writing.

But if the tenant agrees, nothing need be written.

Indeed, the tenant does not need to agree verbally, let alone in writing. Simply by paying the proposed new rent, his agreement is (legally) assumed.

Rent increases (how and when can rent be changed)

theartfullodger

FurAndFins wrote: »

I stand corrected, theartfullodger. Good to know! I was just regurgitating what I had been told by Shelter.
....

I have the highest opinion of Shelter & their information.. herewith their excellent advice on private rent increases...
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting/costs_of_renting/private_tenancies

and if you want their really detailed info & legal background try Shelter Legal, (it costs, but there is a free trial..),

IMHO many landlords would benefit from simply checking Shelter's info (both for England & Scotland) on their website...

Hope I personally never need their help..

Cheers everyone!!!

G_M

theartfullodger wrote: »

I have the highest opinion of Shelter & their information.. herewith their excellent advice on private rent increases...
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting/costs_of_renting/private_tenancies

and if you want their really detailed info & legal background try Shelter Legal, (it costs, but there is a free trial..),

IMHO many landlords would benefit from simply checking Shelter's info (both for England & Scotland) on their website...

Hope I personally never need their help..

Cheers everyone!!!

Shelter Legal gave me a fairly catagorical answer on a matter jjlandlord & I had debated (disputed), namely a tenant's ability to end a SPT at the end of the first period.

Still not fully resolved, and unlikely to be till it goes to a higher court (or someone points to an existing case)

Sorry serielrenter: a complete sidetrack from your issue!

jjlandlord

I don't think it needs to go to a higher court as the issue must be common and very old.
The question must just be answered by a recognised expert (No, a random person from Shelter 'legal' is not one unless they can point to a legal reference).

G_M

Since this rent increase/new-fixed-term dispute is rumbling on, you may wish to either compromise, or force a conclusion or whatever.

I understand invoices continue to be sent for the difference in rent (between original rent and unagreed proposed new rent).

But before deciding what to do, further clarification may help:

* there was originally a (12 month?) fixed term which has now expired, Yes?
* a new fixed term contract, at new rent, has been offered but not signed or agreed, and the original rent continues to be paid, yes?
* Question - does the original agreement have any clause relating to rent increases? If yes, please quote it.
* since the proposed new agreement has a dubious clause relating to deposit registration, please confirm the actual deposit position:
a) did you pay one? On what (exact) date?
b) was it registered? If so, with which scheme and on what (exact) date?
c) were you then sent the 'Prescribed Information'? If yes, on what (exact) date?

* You can check yourself with each scheme (they are listed here).
* You can see examples of the Prescribed Information here.

If your rent is registered in accordance with the law, there is really no need to question or make an issue over the dodgy clause in the new agreement.

If it is not, that in itself is an issue, irresepective of the clause!

If you are willing to pay the rent increase (or some proportion of it???) then I would agree to the new fixed term contract, unless they are also intending to charge you a fee for the agreement. Again, read the original agrement for any mention of such a fee or they may suddenly bounce it on you!

This also, of course, assumes you want to be committed to 12 months and to have the security of 12 months. If you need, or prefer, flexibility to leave at short notice (but accept that you can in return be given notice) then stay on a monthly SPT.

A final quesion: are you dealing only with the agent? Does the landlord know any of this? Do you have the LL's contact details? Often Ts can resolve issues like this easier direct with the LL.

Continuing to remain silent means these 'invoices' will stack up, but that does not make them any more enforceable. It just means that if/when you leave you can expect an arguement over the return of your deposit, which the deposit scheme aritrators will sort out for you (assuming it is in a scheme).

Shelter's advice on rent increases is here.

If/when you choose to escalate this:

Since 1st October 2014, letting agents in England have to sign up to one of 3 schemes:

* The Property Ombudsman
* Ombudsman Services Property
* Property Redress Scheme

Check which your agency has signed up to (or whether they are now outside the law by not signing up).

SerialRenter

G_M wrote: »

* there was originally a (12 month?) fixed term which has now expired, Yes?.

Correct. from "The twenty fourth day of August 2013" to "the twenty third day of August 2014"

G_M wrote: »

* a new fixed term contract, at new rent, has been offered but not signed or agreed, and the original rent continues to be paid, yes?.

It's a supplemental agreement i've been offered which states it'll run for a further 12 months.
"The term of the principal agreement shall be extended for a further period expiring on the 23rd August 2015"

G_M wrote: »

* Question - does the original agreement have any clause relating to rent increases? If yes, please quote it..

There is no clause regarding rent increases. The only term relevent to a further turn reads as follows:
"It is agreed that the tenant shall pay an administrative renewal fee of £25.00 plus VAT to X prior to the commencement of a further term."

G_M wrote: »

* since the proposed new agreement has a dubious clause relating to deposit registration, please confirm the actual deposit position:
a) did you pay one? On what (exact) date?.

I did, on the (edit)23/08/2013.

G_M wrote: »

b) was it registered? If so, with which scheme and on what (exact) date?.

TDS, the certificate states it was recived on the 24th August 2013.
I double checked on the TDS website, and it looks like they've renewed it and put the expected end date as a further 12 months from the end of the fixed term.

G_M wrote: »

c) were you then sent the 'Prescribed Information'? If yes, on what (exact) date?.

I have the "Tenancy Deposit Protection Certificate", but nothing more. I have no recollection of reciving a leaflet and it's not within my archives.

G_M wrote: »

Do they are also intending to charge you a fee for the agreement. Again, read the original agrement for any mention of such a fee or they may suddenly bounce it on you!.

£20 + £5 VAT

G_M wrote: »

A final quesion: are you dealing only with the agent? Does the landlord know any of this? Do you have the LL's contact details? Often Ts can resolve issues like this easier direct with the LL. .

I've never had any contact with the Landlord, although i do have their address, so i'm tempted to write them a letter to clarify that i'm willing to stay in the property, pay the rent increase, but would rather remain on a periodic tenancy, and how the letting agents have failed.

G_M wrote: »

Check which your agency has signed up to (or whether they are now outside the law by not signing up).

Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors
National Association of Estate Agents
Association of Residential Letting Agents
Ombudsmen Services Property

Cheers for the help