Station Car Park NCP ticket

MattE

I recently received a PCN whilst parked in my local station car park. The car park has various ways to pay including ticket machine, by phone, by mobile app or by website. I decided I'd pay by mobile app, so took a picture of the car park number and details etc and set off for the train. Once on the train I looked for the app on play store - I couldn't find a 'dash parking' app - only parking games. So I thought I'd pay once I got to work via the website. Unfortunately when I got to work I forgot all about the parking. On my return journey, around 11 hours later, I realised I hadn't paid so loaded the website on my phone and paid whilst on the train home. When I got back to my car I had received a parking charge notice for breach of parking conditions.

The timing of the PCN were Issue time 18:24 and time first seen 18:11. I had paid at 18:29. I arrived back at the car around 19:00

The PCN also says that I had "Parked in a pay and display car park without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket". And that "The terms and conditions are clearly and prominently displayed and agreed to by the driver by the act of parking the vehicle."

So do I accept that I mucked up and pay the £50 fee? Do I object on the basis that it isn't a pay and display car park and therefore their reason to fine is not relevant (if you pay by phone or app then you don't get a ticket to display). Do I write and offer to pay the difference between what I paid - and what I should've paid (their wasn't an option to pay for peak time all day on the website when I paid) in full and final settlement? I honestly thought that since you could pay by web, phone etc, you didn't need to pay before leaving the car park - and could pay at any point during the day, although having looked at the signs since it says valid from time of purchase.

Any thoughts and help appreciated.

Thanks

Dee140157

First thought -don't pay
Second thought read newbie thread and follow instructions there to wait for NTK and then appeal
Third thought search this forum and name of station or indeed just railway and read a few of those threads to understand about byelaws etc.
Which PPC is it?

Coupon-mad

With NCP the advice is in the Newbies thread to send the forum template appeal (not the one in any MSE article) around day 23 and don't wait for a NTK which won't arrive.

MattE

Thank you for your responses. I had read the newbies thread. I was wondering if the reason for the penalty notice - "Parked in pay and display car park without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket" was debatable - since you do not need to display if you paid by phone or internet.

Also the terms and conditions are displayed on 2 signs at the entrance of the car park - the type face is too small to read whilst in the car, and you cannot park near the signs - so would be it unreasonable for the driver to have accepted these terms and conditions by parking the car - as the driver has no way of reading these terms prior to parking.

Anyway I've appealed the notice online just using the standard reasons as detailed in the newbie thread. Lets see how this one goes.

Thanks

Dee140157

It is not a penalty notice! This is NCP. It is an invoice.
Sit back and await rejection and then hit them with a full POPLA appeal to cut them dead in their tracks.
Mind this is NCP so they will try every dodge tactic on the book!

ampersand

.....'It is an invoice. '

.and 'it is a speculative, unenforceable invoice' at that:-)

Coupon-mad

MattE wrote: »

Thank you for your responses. I had read the newbies thread. I was wondering if the reason for the penalty notice - "Parked in pay and display car park without clearly displaying a valid pay and display ticket" was debatable - since you do not need to display if you paid by phone or internet.

Also the terms and conditions are displayed on 2 signs at the entrance of the car park - the type face is too small to read whilst in the car, and you cannot park near the signs - so would be it unreasonable for the driver to have accepted these terms and conditions by parking the car - as the driver has no way of reading these terms prior to parking.

Yep, both are worth working into a POPLA appeal in due course. One of the examples in the 'How to win at POPLA' link in the Newbies thread is a PPS appeal I wrote only today and I bunged in the end a point headed up something like: 'The contravention as described did not occur' and then expanded on why the Notice to Keeper was drafted in a way which meant the contravention stated didn't apply. Maybe something similar can be added in your case - it won't do any harm.

The first obstacle is to get a POPLA code out of NCP who are not keen at all on the forum template and like to reply pretending they'll only hear appeals from the driver. If they try that with you, then complain to the BPA immediately.

MattE

I've received this response to my online appeal from NCP....

Thank you for your correspondence regarding the above Parking Charge Notice (PCN).

Following the introduction of the Protection of Freedoms act 2012 on the 1st October 2012 lobbying by the BPA the Bill introduces a duty on the keeper to identify the driver providing a serviceable address when enquiries are made by the landowner or his agent. Failing this the keeper becomes liable for any parking charges due as a result of the breach of contract or trespass.

Please note, to date you not have provided a serviceable address for the driver of the vehicle, therefore if this is not provided you, as the registered keeper of the vehicle, are liable for the Parking Charge Notice.

If you are unable to divulge the above information, payment of £75.00 for the above notice can be made by one of the options below.

Payment can be made:

* Online, by visiting
* By sending a cheque or postal order, made payable to National Car Parks Ltd to: National Car Parks Ltd. Notice Processing, PO Box 839, Northampton, NN4 4AL.
* By Debit or Credit card (except American Express). Please call 0845 452 7780 and have your card details and the information held in this letter to hand.

If payment or written consent is not received within 14 days from the date of this letter, the discount offer will expire and the full amount of £75.00 will become due. I have to inform you that if the outstanding amount remains unpaid we will follow a recovery process which includes passing the case over to a debt collector who will seek to recover the outstanding debt on our behalf and any reasonable administration costs incurred by the debt collector. We further reserve the right to use the courts to recover any outstanding parking charges due to us.


Yours sincerely,

Notice Processing Team
National Car Parks

So basically they've not responded to any question or the request for a POPLA number. Complaint to the BPA will be sent this week.

Thanks

Matt

Coupon-mad

Let us know what the BPA say because once in a NCP case they somehow sided with NCP despite the obvious fact that NCP has to consider an appeal from a keeper and can't pretend the driver has to be named. If the BPA are pathetic then send a complaint to the DVLA.

MattE

Having some more thoughts on this - the response NCP sent had "NCP APPEALS DECISION" as the subject header. No where in the email does it say what the appeal decision is. Also on the back of the PCN it states that if an appeal is rejected "...we will give you the contact details of the independent appeals adjudication service." No where in the email is there any mention of an independent appeals service.

So it appears NCP are not following the procedures set out on the PCN.

prjohnsonnn10

Not forgetting of course that this is a railway land car park and as NCP are fully aware there is NO Keeper Liability here so on that basis the letter / ticket is unenforceable on the keeper. As the RK you are under no duty to settle this 'invoice'.