Buying a barn conversion without building regs or architect certificate

Al3x

Hello,
We are in the very last stages of buying a barn conversion carried out in 2000. Original buildings were over 100 years old. The present owner is the developer and has lived in this building with his family from the build date. Also developed another 3 similar barns one of which is attached to the one we are buying and all look similar at least from the outside.
We've been asking for planning permission, building regs compliance and architectural sign off since the beginning and getting very vague answers from the sellers solicitors. After pushing to have these, we've finally established that we have planing permission for all 4 buildings, building reg compliance for the other 3 and architectural sign off for one of the units (not one we are buying)

Turns out now that the latter 2 were not obtained for the one we are buying as the vendors were planning on living there and have lived there since 2000. Presumably these were not obtained to save money?

We have no doubt that only the best materials and construction was used on all and esp the one we are buying. However as the vendor did most of the work himself we have no assurance of his competence and expertise...

I don't think we need anything from a legal point of view to continue with the purchase. And we've had our mortgage approved.

We've had a home buyers report (kicking myself for not having a full structural survey!) which as you can imagine didn't show anything.

However if the whole place falls down and we are left with a pile of rubble, where do we stand? Will buildings insurance cover us?

Any thoughts, ideas, comments appreciated!
Thanks

silvercar

Ask your solicitor whether he needs to notify the mortgage lender that there is no building regs sign off or architect cert.

With no building regs sign off I would be inclined to do a full structural survey now. Even though there is an argument to say that if it has stood for 14 years it should be fine, it is a lot of money you are spending.

The lender may insist on an indemnity policy; IMHO the sellers should pay for this.

Errata

It's not too late to have a full structural survey,

Neese

We tried to buy a barn conversion last year, which after 4 months, we discovered it didn't have an architects certificate or build warranty. For us, this meant our mortgage wasn't approved as the conversion was only 18 months old, so the mortgage company wouldn't touch it. The developer hadn't put these in place as he was selling to a cash buyer, so didn't need them.
We had a full structural survey, which didn't show anything major. We had some queries that the vendor couldn't answer (where the bathroom and kitchen vents came out), so we contacted the developer. This was when we found the vendor had been trying to sue the builder for the defects to the property which made it uninhabitable, such as flooding, inefficient heating and damp.
Obviously, for us all of these issues meant we didn't buy the property. As far as I know the developer and vendor are now trying to sue each other! We never got to the bottom of if there were issues with the build quality or not.

pmlindyloo

Al3x wrote: »

Hello,
We are in the very last stages of buying a barn conversion carried out in 2000. Original buildings were over 100 years old. The present owner is the developer and has lived in this building with his family from the build date. Also developed another 3 similar barns one of which is attached to the one we are buying and all look similar at least from the outside.
We've been asking for planning permission, building regs compliance and architectural sign off since the beginning and getting very vague answers from the sellers solicitors. After pushing to have these, we've finally established that we have planing permission for all 4 buildings, building reg compliance for the other 3 and architectural sign off for one of the units (not one we are buying)

Turns out now that the latter 2 were not obtained for the one we are buying as the vendors were planning on living there and have lived there since 2000. Presumably these were not obtained to save money?

We have no doubt that only the best materials and construction was used on all and esp the one we are buying. However as the vendor did most of the work himself we have no assurance of his competence and expertise...

I don't think we need anything from a legal point of view to continue with the purchase. And we've had our mortgage approved.

We've had a home buyers report (kicking myself for not having a full structural survey!) which as you can imagine didn't show anything.

However if the whole place falls down and we are left with a pile of rubble, where do we stand? Will buildings insurance cover us?

Any thoughts, ideas, comments appreciated!
Thanks

It would concern me that building regulations were not obtained for just this one. In the whole scheme of things the amount of money involved is ridiculously small and your vendor being 'in the business' would know that this would be needed in the event of his selling.

So, a full survey is, in my opinion, a must.

Your building insurance would probably not cover any problems if council approval was not obtained.

Indemnity insurance only covers the cost of council enforcement which is very unlikely after such a time period.

Your mortgage lender may ask for indemnity insurance when they find out there are no building regulations - some do, some don't, but rarely understand what it covers.

The most important things are:

1) Is the building safe? - only real way of knowing is to ask for retrospective building regulations to be obtained - expensive, time consuming and invasive - or to rely on a full survey.

2) What will happen when/if you want to sell? The same problem will occur again.

Your call really.

Article for you to read:

http://www.trethowans.com/site/library/legalnews/lack_of_building_regulation_consent_why_legal_indemnity_policies

Al3x

Would it be unreasonable for us to request to split the costs of a full survey with the vendors do you think?

teneighty

When you say "building regs. compliance" what do you mean exactly?


Was a Building Regs. application submitted and if so which type? Is their a full plans approval notice?


If an application was made were any site inspections undertaken by the building control dept.?


Is it just the completion certificate that is missing, that is not uncommon and provided all the other site inspections were made I would not worry about it.


An Architect's Certificate (Professional Consultant's Certificate) would be worthless after 14 years so not an issue.

silvercar

Al3x wrote: »

Would it be unreasonable for us to request to split the costs of a full survey with the vendors do you think?

You could give them the option, to either get all the required building consents or to split the cost of a survey.