Unusual Executor of will Query re tenancy in common

MrsGrace

My father in law died in June. He was tenant in common of a property with his sister in law (his brother having died 25 years ago). he lived in the property, She did not.

My husband is his only child, the only beneficiary of his will, and the executor thereof.

We have started to clear rubbish from the house and return property that was not his (such as equipment belonging to a local charity he helped run) to it's rightful owner.

We are uncomfortable with clearing his property until probate is agreed as the whole estate is part of the value as far as we can tell.

We have applied for probate and my husband swore the oath on Monday so it is hopefully on track.

AS far as we are aware as executor of the estate my husband is now jointly responsible for insuring the property with his aunt who owns the other half of the property. This is where we are starting to encounter problems.

My husband's cousin, who claims she is acting on behalf of her mother, refuses to accept that my husband has any say in the property and as that her mother is the sole living owner she has 100% say. She is appointing solicitors to handle sale and has singlehandedly changed insurance policies without consultation.

After much trouble a copy of the new insurance has been provided that surreally lists my husband as the sole beneficiary but listed at his Aunt's address and with his cousin's email and phone details listed as his. I am becoming very concerned and am starting to believe we need to see a solicitor.

Advice please!! A simple guide to the duties and rights of an executor might help as that may make them see sense!:mad::mad::mad:

Thanks in advance.

MrsGrace

Ooops - sorry I should have said we are getting constant hassle that the property must be cleared immediately - he only died on 21st June and the Funeral was 4 weeks ago - is this a normal timescale??

nom_de_plume

MrsGrace wrote: »

My father in law died in June. He was tenant in common of a property with his sister in law ........

My husband's cousin, who claims she is acting on behalf of her mother, refuses to accept that my husband has any say in the property and as that her mother is the sole living owner she has 100% say. She is appointing solicitors to handle sale and has singlehandedly changed insurance policies without consultation.

Awkward situation as I guess they both have an equal interest in the property (assuming the cousin does actually have the authority to act on behalf of her mother). It does sound, however, that she is confusing tenants in common with joint tenants which would give the situation she suggests.

MrsGrace

She recognises that he will get half the money from the eventual sale of the property - but not that he has any say in how we get to that point - he has tried to be reasonable but he keeps getting emails instructing on him on what she has done and what she demands he must do. Is very difficult. Any advice on the legally correct responses, especially regarding the rogue insurance would be very helpful.

dzug1

Perhaps your husband should gently inform the solicitors that he is the executor named in the will and that he will shortly have probate. They won't be able to sell without his agreement. Suggest they put their client right as to the legal realities


All very well to take into account the wishes of the cousin/aunt - but only if reasonable

g6jns_2

dzug1 wrote: »

Perhaps your husband should gently inform the solicitors that he is the executor named in the will and that he will shortly have probate. They won't be able to sell without his agreement. Suggest they put their client right as to the legal realities


All very well to take into account the wishes of the cousin/aunt - but only if reasonable

I would suggest you also inform the insurance company as she has been dishonest with them. Do this in writing and by phone.

Crabapple

In a way, the cousin instructing solicitors might be the best thing. As much as she thinks she knows what happens now, one of the first things they are going to do is ask about the joint owner.

They'll explain she (or her mother) can't just sell the property without the Executor signing paperwork too.

I don't know that the exact names on the insurance policy is going to be much of an issue as long as it is in the name of the joint owner. However, you need to check that the company know it is an unoccupied property and check that you comply with any conditions such as regular visits to the property.

getmore4less

To do the probate application the valuations of the property and all other assets will need to have been done for the IHT forms.

As named executor, the right to deal with the contents and assets comes from the will the grant just confirms this for those that need to see it.

As the sole beneficiary he can pretty much do as he pleases with the assets(except the house) as the only person that can make a fuss is himself or HMRC if there is any IHT implications.

Do the other owners have access to the property(eg a set of keys) if they do are they likely to anything.

Are they planning to instruct estate agents who will need access etc.

I would start with securing the property check the insurance, and decide what you want to do with the place and their motivation for the actions they are taking.

CHECK the land registry for ownership, also check that things were done properly 25 years ago when the brother died his TIC was transferred to thee wife, if not that will complicate a little bit when it comes to the sale.

You could ask to see the POA the cousin is using to deal with her mothers affairs.

If the motivation is just money and you have assets or might want to keep the place then an offer may facilitate them leaving you to it.

It may be a good idea to bring a solicitor into this to handle just the house side of things the rest of the estate/probate is fairly straight forward.

MrsGrace

Crabapple wrote: »

.......

I don't know that the exact names on the insurance policy is going to be much of an issue as long as it is in the name of the joint owner. However, you need to check that the company know it is an unoccupied property and check that you comply with any conditions such as regular visits to the property.

The weird thing is that the policy is *in his name only* - with contact details that are not his (Ie address, email and phone numbers of his Aunt and cousin not him), I am actually pretty concerned and even more after reading the detail of the policy which has a number of mis-statements of fact in it.

Equally the insurance change has been made with no consultation with him as the executor.

She keeps telling us she has seen a solicitor but no letters from them are forthcoming so I am unsure as to how much legal advice she has really had - and of course any lawyer will be basing their advice on what she tells them which may be incomplete or untrue.

Crabapple

MrsGrace wrote: »

The weird thing is that the policy is *in his name only* - with contact details that are not his (Ie address, email and phone numbers of his Aunt and cousin not him), I am actually pretty concerned and even more after reading the detail of the policy which has a number of mis-statements of fact in it.

Equally the insurance change has been made with no consultation with him as the executor.

She keeps telling us she has seen a solicitor but no letters from them are forthcoming so I am unsure as to how much legal advice she has really had - and of course any lawyer will be basing their advice on what she tells them which may be incomplete or untrue.

I'd tell her that you need the name of the Solicitor. Try explaining that the house will need to be sold by her mother and the Executor together and say if she hasn't been advised that by her Solicitor then she needs to use another that knows the law!

If there are factual statements wrong in the insurance then you need to contact the company. There's no point having insurance in place if it is going to be impossible to claim on (potentially) because incorrect information was given at the outset.

MrsGrace

IN line responses - inc some questions:

getmore4less wrote: »

To do the probate application the valuations of the property and all other assets will need to have been done for the IHT forms.

As named executor, the right to deal with the contents and assets comes from the will the grant just confirms this for those that need to see it. So can we start disposing of household items like TV etc now? And throwing out rubbish

As the sole beneficiary he can pretty much do as he pleases with the assets(except the house) as the only person that can make a fuss is himself or HMRC if there is any IHT implications.

Do the other owners have access to the property(eg a set of keys) if they do are they likely to anything.Yes - and the cousin has been using them regularly - allegedly to keep an eye on the property but a number of items have disappeared - we have asked her about this but no response as yet after 3 weeks

Are they planning to instruct estate agents who will need access etc.Yes - but we have said that we need to disucss this ie - sole agent v multiple agent v possible auction due to nature of the property - there needs to be a discussion and a mutually acceptable decision taken - again no response to that point after 3 weeks

I would start with securing the property check the insurance, and decide what you want to do with the place and their motivation for the actions they are taking.I am pretty sure as joint owner she has a right to keys - am not sure what happens when that right is being misused, the insurance policy that was in place was cancelled by her and a new inaccurate and disturbing one put in place - we are trying to resolve this amicably but there is no discussion. I think all parties are agreed that we want to sell the property - but we need sometime to deal with the property and the possessions therein (my FIL was a hoarder). I have been trying to understand the motivations but I am struggling to do so.

CHECK the land registry for ownership, also check that things were done properly 25 years ago when the brother died his TIC was transferred to thee wife, if not that will complicate a little bit when it comes to the sale.The transfer was not done u til my husband and I dealt with it 12 years ago. It sat for 13 years in the name of the dead parent.

You could ask to see the POA the cousin is using to deal with her mothers affairs.My husband did by email last night. I don't think it will help matters, just raise the temperature but she is being impossible

If the motivation is just money and you have assets or might want to keep the place then an offer may facilitate them leaving you to it.No to both assets and desire to keep it - we want to sell but need probate to follow legal formalities - not just her telling us she is appointing estate agents and lawyers and to clear the house immediately

It may be a good idea to bring a solicitor into this to handle just the house side of things the rest of the estate/probate is fairly straight forward.

Our initial response was that we would need a solicitor for conveyancing etc once we had decided on the manner of sale (there would be a different role if we went down the auction route, for example), but we did point our that out solicitor currently has all the papers relating to ownership from when we arranged the transfer...again no response to this point

Perhaps we shall need a family law solicitor to deal with this but it is sending us mad