Small Claims: Washer Dryer

Idiophreak

Hi All,

Mentioned this issue in an earlier thread, but now we're getting all "courty" about it, so figured I'd start a new one...Try and be brief:

Basically, we paid a company to get an integrated washer dryer installed. They were a local firm, so we paid well over the odds and made it clear to them that we were doing so because we needed the job to be done quickly so we could draw a line under it - this was because we were moving house the next week and had other things to worry about.

So, they turned up and slotted the machine roughly into place, but refused to attach the door (in order to make it "integrated").

I complained and said that I'd paid for an integrated appliance and it had been left non-integrated and asked what I was supposed to do about it.

They said that it's in their terms and conditions (which they admitted they'd never shown / explained to me) that they might not fit the door. If we wanted the door attached, we'd have to pay a carpenter to come and do it. They gave me the number of a carpenter. If I was unhappy, they said they could bring back my old machine and swap them back and give a refund.

Now, because time was so short (and I don't have endless holiday!), I didn't have time to arrange for them to come and swap the machine back, then arrange to have another delivered, then arrange for the carpenter...So instead I just wrote to them and said, "OK...I'm going to go ahead and get the carpenter in and I'll send you the bill. "

So, I sent them the bill (£45) and they refused to pay it. So I gave them 14 days and said following that I'd launch small claims against them. They replied saying "our website clearly states this in the T&Cs". Firstly, we found them on yell, so had never been to their website when we paid them and secondly, I subsequently provided proof that they'd updated their T&Cs on their website in the three days before I got their response - ie long after I'd asked them to install the machine. Sneaky.

So, anyway, I launched small claims and I've just heard back that they're defending the claim. Their defence, basically, is "it's in our T&Cs" (although they've admitted that I hadn't been shown these at the time), "we offered a refund" and then that "installation is free, so he hasn't paid us for a service that we haven't delivered".

Now, obviously I have to chose whether I want to go to court or not. I feel I've a pretty solid case, but just wondered if there are any obvious gotchas in the above? Are you obligated to accept their proposed remedy if they fail to complete a job?

Thanks in advance!

Bantex_2

Sounds like they installed the appliance. Fitting an external door would normally be extra unless it was included in the quotation.

Idiophreak

Bantex wrote: »

Sounds like they installed the appliance. Fitting an external door would normally be extra unless it was included in the quotation.

...but how was I to know that?

As far as I was concerned, I'd paid them to install an integrated appliance and they didn't.

As an aside (or is it?) they charge (when it's not "free") £50+VAT to install a regular washer dryer, or £95+VAT for an integrated one. If they don't fit the door, I really struggle to see what the extra £45 is for...

unholyangel

Idiophreak wrote: »

...but how was I to know that?

As far as I was concerned, I'd paid them to install an integrated appliance and they didn't.

As an aside (or is it?) they charge (when it's not "free") £50+VAT to install a regular washer dryer, or £95+VAT for an integrated one. If they don't fit the door, I really struggle to see what the extra £45 is for...

I'd say its relevant. I was going to say only thing I can see tripping you up is perhaps if they also offer this service but at a premium, or if its industry standard not to install the door also.

You're right about the terms though. Unfair contract terms expressly forbids binding consumers to terms which they had no opportunity to read before being bound by them.

Idiophreak

unholyangel wrote: »

I'd say its relevant. I was going to say only thing I can see tripping you up is perhaps if they also offer this service but at a premium, or if its industry standard not to install the door also.

The service I received was what they'd normally charge £95 for. Attaching the door is just not a service they offer at all.

The second part of what you say worries me a little. Having done more research into it now, it's pretty standard for companies to either just refuse to install integrated appliances, or to have T&Cs like this company's...where they say they might not put the door on integrated appliances.

But, again, I don't know how I was supposed to know that at the time. I'm not in the industry, I didn't do much research ahead of buying the thing. The company were originally supposed to repair my old one...but it was a right off...so they gave me a quote for replacing "like for like" (which, again, I assumed meant "with a door on *like* the old one") and as I had other things to spend my time / energy on, I just went with it.

It would be like paying someone to fit a door and them turning around and saying "oh, well it's industry standard not to fit a doorknob"...how would the consumer know that?

meer53

Delivery men who install appliances aren't usually kitchen fitters too so i can see why they wouldn't fit the door.

I'd question them about the difference in fitting prices though.

TonyMMM

Idiophreak wrote: »

I didn't do much research ahead of buying the thing.

That is the key point ....

If you can show that they quoted, or confirmed at any point, that their installation would include fitting the door (rather than you just assumed it would ) then you have a case.

If not, forget it.

Idiophreak

meer53 wrote: »

Delivery men who install appliances aren't usually kitchen fitters too so i can see why they wouldn't fit the door.

I'd question them about the difference in fitting prices though.

TBH I'm shocked (even now) that it requires a "kitchen fitter" to install a washing machine. I assumed (there's that word again) that the fixings on integrated appliances were standardised...so any extra I was being charged was for unscrewing the door from the old one and screwing it on to the new one...I certainly assumed that by asking for a "like for like", they'd provide one that would use the same arrangement of fixings.

Idiophreak

TonyMMM wrote: »

That is the key point ....

If you can show that they quoted, or confirmed at any point, that their installation would include fitting the door (rather than you just assumed it would ) then you have a case.

If not, forget it.

I paid more for them to fit an integrated appliance.

An integrated appliance is an appliance with a door on.

I'd say that's proof that they're going to fit the door, unless stated otherwise, surely?

Surely a consumer can't be expected to be an expert in everything they ever buy? There has to be a certain amount of "a normal person would take that to mean...".

Example, you order a dozen bananas from the supermarket and they're delivered without skins. Do you have cause to complain, or are they in the clear because they didn't explicitly state they'd come skin-on?

ETA: Also, I was explicitly quoted the price as being "fully fitted". Can't prove that in writing, but it would be down to them to lie about that in court, surely?

Bantex_2

Idiophreak wrote: »

I paid more for them to fit an integrated appliance.

An integrated appliance is an appliance with a door on.

I'd say that's proof that they're going to fit the door, unless stated otherwise, surely?

Surely a consumer can't be expected to be an expert in everything they ever buy? There has to be a certain amount of "a normal person would take that to mean...".

Example, you order a dozen bananas from the supermarket and they're delivered without skins. Do you have cause to complain, or are they in the clear because they didn't explicitly state they'd come skin-on?

ETA: Also, I was explicitly quoted the price as being "fully fitted". Can't prove that in writing, but it would be down to them to lie about that in court, surely?

Installing the appliance is one job. Fitting a separate door (not an integral part of the appliance) is cabinet work. Two separate jobs technically.

Idiophreak

Bantex wrote: »

Installing the appliance is one job. Fitting a separate door (not an integral part of the appliance) is cabinet work. Two separate jobs technically.

You didn't really explain. How am I, an innocent punter, supposed to know that?
ETA: And as you're apparently clued up on this stuff, can you offer any explanation as to why installing an integrated appliance costs twice as much if you don't have to put the door on?