Help with calculations!!

kevandkeira

Hi,
I made the awful mistake of switching to Npower from British Gas as they claimed to be cheaper. Having received my statement I can see that they have an added daily charge that I was not aware of & i'm hoping someone can help me calculate whether they are actually cheaper, I don't even know where to start!!
British Gas were charging me 23.597 up to 720 kWh & 11.035 thereafter.
N Power are charging me 11.610 per kWh + 16.44 per day!! This is what has confused me and made me question if I really am on a cheaper tariff.
My recent Npower bill covers 75 days they said I have used 1149 kW & the bill amounts to £153.02.
Hopefully somebody can help me figure out what British Gas would have charged me for the same usage, thankyou.

Cardew

Your BG tariff was an old 'tiered tariff. The 23.597p is Tier 1 and the 11.035 is Tier 2. If you were charged tier 1 rates for 720kWh a year then the BG tariff would have cost almost the same as the Npower tariff assuming that your consumption of 1,149kWh in 75 days is typical consumption(5591kWh pa)


However it doesn't matter what BG would have charged, as for future tariffs all companies now must have a daily standing charge and the '2 tier system' has been scrapped.

essjaytee

....however to satisfy your curiosity...


720kWh @ 0.23597 = £169.90
429kWh @ 0.11035 = £47.34


= £217.24 plus 5% VAT @ £10.86 = £228.10


assuming 5% vat and no discounts as per npower bill


Just as an aside - is this not just basic maths???

Cardew

essjaytee wrote: »

....however to satisfy your curiosity...


720kWh @ 0.23597 = £169.90
429kWh @ 0.11035 = £47.34


= £217.24 plus 5% VAT @ £10.86 = £228.10


assuming 5% vat and no discounts as per npower bill


Just as an aside - is this not just basic maths???

Methinks your basic maths is incorrect;)


You have made the wrong assumption that in 75 days the OP would have been charged for 720kWh @ Tier1 rates(23.597p/kWh).


That would mean BG were charging for 3,504kWh pa at tier 1 rates(720/75 x 365); i.e. an effective Standing charge' of £440 a year.:eek:

essjaytee

OP doesn't mention anywhere that Tier 1 rates were for 720kWh per annum, if they are then fine I will re-calculate.

I went off the information that was given and also my own experience of being on 2 tier rates where the rate 1 was for a certain amount of kWh per billing period/quarter not per annum.

My point about the maths has nothing to do with whether an amount of kWh is per annum or not... it was a general observation to do with the number of people on here who seem to struggle with working out if one supplier's unit rate plus standing charge is better than another's ie basic maths.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

essjaytee wrote: »

OP doesn't mention anywhere that Tier 1 rates were for 720kWh per annum, if they are then fine I will re-calculate.

I went off the information that was given and also my own experience of being on 2 tier rates where the rate 1 was for a certain amount of kWh per billing period/quarter not per annum.

My point about the maths has nothing to do with whether an amount of kWh is per annum or not... it was a general observation to do with the number of people on here who seem to struggle with working out if one supplier's unit rate plus standing charge is better than another's ie basic maths.

BG used to pro rata their 720KWh allowance over the year, ie. 4 quarters of 180KWh. http://www.britishgas.co.uk/content/dam/british-gas/documents/excel/Online-Table-Price-Promise-April-2014-New.xls

Nada666

essjaytee wrote: »

Just as an aside - is this not just basic maths???

Obviously not!

essjaytee wrote: »

OP doesn't mention anywhere that Tier 1 rates were for 720kWh per annum, if they are then fine I will re-calculate.

I went off the information that was given and also my own experience of being on 2 tier rates where the rate 1 was for a certain amount of kWh per billing period/quarter not per annum.

Nonsense. You were never charged anywhere near that number of tier 1 units for 75 days of electricity.

If the model is so basic why did you struggle? Why did you make an error?

Cardew

essjaytee wrote: »

OP doesn't mention anywhere that Tier 1 rates were for 720kWh per annum, if they are then fine I will re-calculate.

I went off the information that was given and also my own experience of being on 2 tier rates where the rate 1 was for a certain amount of kWh per billing period/quarter not per annum.

My point about the maths has nothing to do with whether an amount of kWh is per annum or not... it was a general observation to do with the number of people on here who seem to struggle with working out if one supplier's unit rate plus standing charge is better than another's ie basic maths.

The OP stated 'I don't even know where to start!!' and asked for the cost of 1,149kWh with the BG tariff

Using your 'basic maths' you advised the OP that 1,149kWh in 75 days on their BG tariff would cost £217.24 ex VAT and with VAT £228.10

The OP quoted the cost of 1,149kWh with NPower as £153.02

Did you not think it strange that your calculation gave a BG tariff that was nearly 50% more expensive than Npower?

As a matter of interest the amount of Tier 1 units are calculated daily by the companies. Thus for 720kWh pa it would be approx;) 1.9712525 a day. As billing periods can never be for an exact quarter they use that figure multiplied by the number of days.

TickersPlaysPop

I was on a tiered NPower tariff and the electricity tier 1 allowance was spread evenly across the year, BUT.... the gas tier 1 allowance per yr was spread very unevenly across the yr.

Around 880 kWh in winter months, down to as low as 46 in the summer mths. This makes the calculation a bit more complicated.

Suggested by somebody on here, I used "imeter" an ipad app for retrospectively calculating my entire 2 yr stay with NPower. It took about 1.5 hrs to enter all the tariffs and meter readings plus not forgetting a conversion factor for ft cubed into kWh for gas in my area.

Simplifying the billing is one good thing that ofwhat have done, but there are still some improvements needed in my opinion.

Cardew

TickersPlaysPop wrote: »

I was on a tiered NPower tariff and the electricity tier 1 allowance was spread evenly across the year, BUT.... the gas tier 1 allowance per yr was spread very unevenly across the yr.

Around 880 kWh in winter months, down to as low as 46 in the summer mths. This makes the calculation a bit more complicated.

Npower were unique in that on the tier system for their gas tariff they used 'seasonal weighting' (sculpting) which, as you say, had variable tier 1 allowances across the year.


That sculpting system led to thousands of posts on MSE and a campaign led by a MSE forum contributor who exposed some 'creative accounting' by Npower; and ended with Npower paying back many £millions to customers.


Not sure I agree with you that the 'simplification' of tariffs is to be welcomed.


If someone could not fathom how the tier system worked, how will they work out now which of the hundreds of tariffs best suits their needs?


Is it better to have a low Daily Standing Charge(DSC) and a high unit rate? or a high DSC and a low unit rate? To determine that you need to know your predicted consumption exactly. Then you need to factor in the discounts for dual fuel/payment method etc.


Obviously a comparison website will give the results, just as it did for the tier system.

Bigphil1474

I worked out that with BG you would have paid around £156 for usage on those figures (Tier 1 pro rata 365/75), and around £145 with your new supplier. The bill of £153 is the amount used plus 5% VAT. Slightly better off, as the BG bill would have had VAT on as well making it £164.
All other things being equal of course. You'd have to add in any additional discounts that you do or don't get e.g. paperless billing, dual fuel if applicable, DD 'discount'. etc. Didn't have the time to do a cost comparison over a year, as it will probably make a difference when usage is higher or lower, plus as a previous poster said, it would appear that BG would have a standing charge anyway now.