PPS & RINGO App payment issue - parking fine

danblake

Hi


My wife and I have spent the last few hours reading threads from all sorts of issues. I am really unsure whether to appeal to PPS using their email appeals system or whether to wait for the NTK to come in the post as this thread below suggests…..However my case seems to be slightly different and we are unsure of the process to follow.






I have read this case and it seems PPS maybe a bit more difficult to deal with. And may not require the standard letters etc..


This is the thread title.


Premier Parking Solutions Rejected Appeal POPLA next stop?

hxxp://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5018879&highlight=pps


Here are the details of my case with Ringo customer service, they apparently don’t enter into discussions with PPS nor are they able to offer me a further reason as to why my payment didn’t go through & why I didn’t get any notification of it declining….





Ringo enquiry -

Hello, I have been given a parking ticket today at 2316 Didcot and I am 100% sure that I have paid today. I went through the normal process and even entered my cvv code. I am sure the next page said the session had started. However I have a ticket and am a bit frustrated that I cannot talk to someone.

Please can you check your logs to see that I have tried to pay today and if it has not gone through, why it has not gone through. I am sure you can get this information and confirm at least. I also work in the website industry and any application like this should have adequate logging that can determine what happened.

I expect the transaction failed for some reason, I guess the app is at fault. Recently I have been having issues with the app saying the parking session had started and it had. Its very confusing and if I need to check my bank statement and emails just to see if I am ok than this needs to be sorted.

Many thanks
Dan

RingGo (22-Jul-14 14:03):

Dear Daniel Blake,

Thank you for contacting us.

We have viewed your RingGo account and cannot trace any transactions for the date quoted. We have also reviewed our call audit logs and can confirm in that no payment was taken for a parking session,

Please see below:
Date Phone Number Parked Result VRM Zone Requested Duration Value Discount Code Channel Call Duration Product

21 Jul 14 15:34 07590678007 No Caller was asked to enter long card number 0 0 0 IVR 62s RingGo
Date CLI Result VRM Zone Requested Duration Value
21 Jul 14 15:34 07590678007 Caller pressed * for account menu
21 Jul 14 15:33 07590678007 Caller offered most recently used vehicle to park with
21 Jul 14 15:33 07590678007 User information being retrieved for existing user


21 Jul 14 15:30 07590678007 No Caller offered most recently used vehicle to park with 0 0 0 IVR 43s RingGo
Date CLI Result VRM Zone Requested Duration Value
21 Jul 14 15:30 07590678007 Caller offered most recently used vehicle to park with
21 Jul 14 15:30 07590678007 User information being retrieved for existing user


21 Jul 14 08:33 07590678007 No Bank declined the transaction YG57HPP 2316 1 D 600 0 IPHONE


In order for us to investigate further, please provide us with the following information:

Kind Regards,

Julie for the RingGo Customer Care Team



Daniel Blake (22-Jul-14 17:32):

Hi

This is the section that I am referring too.

21 Jul 14 08:33 07590678007 No Bank declined the transaction YG57HPP 2316 1 D 600 0 IPHONE

What happened here? I entered my CVV code. Why did the transaction not go through and why didn't it tell me?

Am I expected to check my bank and see if I get an email receipt each time I park???

The calls are all just me trying to call you. Please can I talk to someone about this? I feel I have tried to pay for parking and have been given a ticket unfairly. I pay using a company card and have no reason not to pay. It does not benefit me at all. I feel the application is at fault not me. This has happened many times before..

My number is 07590 678007, please call me to discuss.

Daniel Blake (24-Jul-14 13:21):

Can I get a response please

RingGo (24-Jul-14 13:51):

Dear Daniel Blake,

Thank you for coming back to us. We have tried to call you today. We are sorry to hear that you have received a parking fine. Unfortunately, we do not get given a reason for Payment cards declining.

It is possible to appeal against the decision with the enforcement operator who issued the notice, in this instance, Premier Parking Solutions Ltd.

Unfortunately the enforcement operator will not allow RingGo to intervene with any aspect of the appeal process, as it is their strict policy that customers contact them directly in writing. They issue the fines and consequently they are the only ones able to cancel them. You should as such follow the appeals procedure which is normally written on the back of the charge notice.

If you had definitely paid for parking with RingGo at the time the parking fine was issued, we can supply you with a standard appeal template letter for you to print and forward to the operator, together with a VAT receipt as your proof of payment.

To obtain the template letter, click 'Help' towards the top right corner of the page followed by 'Appeal parking fine' under popular questions.

After completing all required fields, we will email you the appeal template letter, specific to your case, along with a copy of your RingGo VAT receipt. This letter should then be sent to the enforcement operator using the contact details provided on the back of the notice.

We are sorry that we could not be of further assistance on this occasion but do wish you success with any appeal.

Kind Regards,

Julie for the RingGo Customer Care Team

To assist you further in the future please be aware that you can access the myRingGo Help Centre to answer your questions by clicking 'Help' towards the top of the page. Thank you for using RingGo.









Please help as I can’t afford to keep paying these fines! I would really appreciate some thoughts on what I should do next..!!





:mad:





Thanks

Dee140157

Since you have already contacted them and admitted you are driver, you may as well go ahead and appeal as per the Newbie thread. You will not now probably get a NTK as you have been in contact with them.

There is really no point going into long conversations with them.

danblake

Hi Dee140157

Thanks for such a rapid response..

Sorry I have confused matters. I have actually only responded to Ringo (the cashless payment company) I have not yet appealed to PPS the PCN company. Does that make a difference?

Dee140157

Ah that makes it easier.
Ok, now normal advice is to wait for the NTK. However I know from the Newbie thread this is one of the more difficult companies to appeal to.

Do you have any signs from the car park you can post. Or can you get them soon?

You will need to upload them to eg tinypic.com and then post here with the http:// missing. A regular will then complete the links for you.

danblake

This is where I think my issue is slightly different. I feel that I have paid the fee, however the transaction has been declined. I did not see the declined transaction and went about my day. When I came back to the car park I had a ticket. I have chased Ringo to ask why my transaction was declined and they do not know.

I feel this is an APP error and not my bank. I parked there 2 days later and my card was declined 3 times before I got a successful transaction using the same card.

At the end of the day I feel as though I have made the effort to pay and the Ringo APP is at fault. PPS have given me the fine because the payment didn't go through..

Does that make sense..

danblake

This is the extract from Ringo proving that I was attempting payment

21 Jul 14 08:33 07590678007 No Bank declined the transaction YG57HPP 2316 1 D 600 0 IPHONE

Dee140157

You have to get your head round the Newbie thread and get to grips with the fact that mitigating circumstances do not win appeals.

Yes you tried to pay, but unless you have evidence you actually paid, then saying "I tried to pay" will not win the appeal. You can keep trying to persue this, but it will get you nowhere.

You can separately complain to Ringo about the app or whatever, I know nothing about this. The PPC will not care about this. They just want your money. I get that you have an issue with Ringo, but this is about appealing the PCN.

So you will need to appeal the PCN on legalities not circumstances. This is no different to most other posters on the forum, despite you thinking it is.

The main problem is not the why but the who, which is why I asked for photos.

Please go and read the newbie thread again and get your head around this.

pogofish

danblake wrote: »

This is where I think my issue is slightly different.

Facts of the situation generally cut no ice with POPLA - So your situation is no different to anyone else's. Instead, you need to concentrate on the proven appeal-winning points laid-out in the Newbie thread,

danblake

Yes you are right.. I guess I am just frustrated.

Based on this thread
hxxp://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5018879&highlight=pps

I guess I am not really sure where to start with PPS. As you say they seem to know their stuff.

Shall I go with a standard template from the newbie section and then use the above letter in the link from coupon-mad???

Dee140157

That link will be useful for later. Anything written by Coupn-Mad is good.

Usually we advise to wait for the notice to keeper before you appeal. This is the case with PPS It in the meanwhile use the time wisely to get photographic evidence of the car park signs please as requested earlier. Their PCNs can be different.

When it arrives, upload images with information redacted.

danblake

Ok I will get some pics and get back asap.

I have just read this from Didcot and it seemed to work. However it looks like this person waited for an NTK


Letter to PPS

Premier ParkPCN number xxxxx
POPLA code xxxxxxxxxx (dd/mm/yyyy)
Vehicle Registration My Reg

On 14th December 2013, Premier Parking Solutions issued a parking charge notice of £100 because the above vehicle was not displaying a valid dashboard ticket.
I appeal on the grounds that I am not liable for the parking charge. I HAD purchased a ticket for 24 hours at a cost of £6.10 (overpaid as I did not have the correct change available) The ticket states “Fix ticket inside window” but is not supplied with any means of affixing the ticket to the window. Therefore, I placed the ticket on my dashboard.

I believe that the 'parking charge' is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and I question the proprietary interest of Premier Park in the land.

'The charge is a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss'.

In this case the £100 charge, far exceeds the cost to the landowner who would have charged me £6.00 for the time my car was parked there. The £100 charge, in addition to the £6.10 already paid, cannot be construed as anything but a punitive penalty. For this charge to be justified, a full breakdown of the costs Premier Park has suffered as a result of the car being parked at the car park is required and should add up to £100. Normal expenditure the company incurs to carry on their business (e.g. provision of parking, parking enforcement or signage erection) should not be included in the breakdown, as these expenses would have been suffered irrespective of the car being parked at that car park.


Proprietary Interest

The appellant does not believe that the operator has demonstrated a proprietary interest in the land, because they have no legal possession which would give Premier Park any right to offer parking spaces, let alone allege a contract with third party customers of the lawful owner/occupiers. In addition, Premier Park lack of title in this land means they have no legal standing to allege trespass or loss, if that is the basis of their charge.

The appellant contends that Premier Park are only an agent working for the owner and their signs do not help them to form a contract without any consideration capable of being offered. VCS -v- HMRC 2012 is the binding decision in the Upper Chamber which deals with this issue.

The Keeper believes there is no contract with the landowner/occupier that entitles them to levy these charges and therefore has no authority to issue parking charge notices (PCNs). This being the case, the burden of proof shifts to Premier Park. The appellant expects Premier Park to prove that they are not in breach of section 7.1 of the BPA code.

Even if a basic contract is produced and mentions PCNs, the lack of ownership or assignment of title or interest in the land reduces any contract to one that exists simply on an agency basis between Premier Park and the owner/occupier, containing nothing that Premier Park can lawfully use in their own name as a mere agent, that could impact on a third party customer.

Due to these reasons, I respectfully request that this ‘Parking Charge Notice’ should be dismissed.