Our Mortgage Providers Wont Let Us See Survey?!?!?

William_H

All good stuff - I like it. (Although childish and naive hurt a little, but hey, sometimes you've got to have broad shoulders).

"Why on earth should the lender give you a copy?"

The lender should give you a copy because you have paid for it.

"The lender had every right and indeed a fidicuary duty to check the security is good and sound. Of course you pay for this survice otherwise all sorts of dreamers an no hopers would have valuers attend properties without cost and with no intention of buying the place."

I am not of the opinion that a survey should be free - so this and the comments regarding not knowing the costs of business owners etc I don't feel are valid. I agree completely that the lender has a right to ensure that their investment is sound so that in the event that payments need to be forfeited they have an asset which can be sold to recover their outstanding balance (although don't forget they already have your down payment). What I do object to is having to pay £300 to the mortgage provider just for them to evaluate the property when really it's a pittance to them but a good deal to the purchaser with no added value. I fully agree that one should pay £400 or so for your own structural survey - however, the fact is that, ludicrously, most people don't, because of the additional cost, and so are not getting their money's worth.

"There is an underlying feeling in this country that everyone is owed something for nothing, yet all these people believe they should be paid top money for what they do themselves. You can't have it both ways."

I don't want something for nothing, I want something for £300. Not nothing for £300. And, as it happens, I'm an engineer, so yes, I believe I'm underpaid in this country for what it's worth. I believe the underlying problem with this country is the fact that we will pay a high price for something merely because everyone else pays for it (e.g. petrol, cars, tax, food) without much thought, when in other countries the commodity is much cheaper. To say we want something for nothing is not true - we're not a country of free loaders by any means. Negative attitudes towards ourselves is the biggest problem and tarring "everyone" with the same brush. We need to have more self worth.

There are other alternatives to the one you mentioned Conrad. Possibly one answer is to charge more for the valuation, but have a structural survey done as a matter of course. What do you think? It might save a lot of people a lot of heart ache in the long run and everyone would come out happy. The mortgage provider might not like that option though, since it could lead to the sale falling through. Only 20% of all buyers actually get a full structural survey done. All I know is, I wouldn't buy a house, new or old, without one. It just doesn't seem worth the risk.

ps I had to look up "fiduciary".

Alan_M_2

This is starting to sound like some sort of socialist rant.

Lets get this in perspective, the lenders choose to show these costs transparently, I like that, but a side effect is it creates resentment.

When I buy something I like to know what I'm paying for the item, what I'm paying for shipping, how much sales tax I'm paying, what the profit margin on the item is. For my part that's my inquisitive mind as I run a business and I'm always interested how others go about running theirs.

However, the very transparency of this information leads to resentment, that resentment is usually founded in how much more money the particular person is perceived to be earning than you. (usually calculated incorrectly by extrapolating the sum and multiplying to come out with some six figure annualised salary).

I used to be quite transparent when I quoted for products I sell, I'd provide a cost of the goods, shipping costs from Europe, port handling charges, delivery to the customer and any related costs.

I got sick of the constant conversations about trying to get a "Discount" off fixed costs. I now supply a price supplied and delivered - no breakdown included, no hassle, no bartering, that's the price take it or leave it.

We stand tall as a nation that are not willing to pay for anything, we expect discounts for everything for no good reason, (85% of my customers ask for discounts, no matter what volume they buy - some are genuinely offended when I don't play ball).

There is an underlying problem here that has nothing to with valuations or surveys per se, it comes back time and time again to a feeling of being undervalued.

If you feel undervalued, do something about it, we live in a capitalist society that promotes wealth and those that try to attain it. Then on your way there, you start to see the flip side of the coin and you actually realise what a good deal most things actually are.

Tax wise we are one of the most attractive countries in the world, our socialist chancellor has, over the last few years, made London as attractive as Monaco for the monied masses, why do think the bizarre house price rises continue in the Million pound properties upwards.

Have I gone off at a tangent? I actually don't think I'm far wide of the mark.

William_H

O K then.

Erm, go the blues?!?

I'm all for transparency. And I sympathise with the business owner and their costs and their constant discount conversations. But back to vindalooloo's point somewhat - if their mortgage provider has charged £300 for a valuation and then simply sent Johnny Placement Student to the property to count the bedrooms and check there are four walls, then that fee is out of order. £300 should buy you a good day's work. More transparency is needed - what exactly do they do for the money they charge? And if they are not willing to show vindalooloo the report, then there's some sheep shearing going on. Childish or not. And surely, in my humble opinion, that should be illegal.

Basically vindalooloo, I would have gotten a higher level survey. I realised when I purchased that the provider's valuation wasn't going to tell me much (and I doubt it will in your case either), and my property was over a hundred years old, so I went the whole hog. You should too.

UK007BullDog

It is only going to get worse. All the lenders are looking to streamline their surveying and are moving to an online system where basic surveys are done online. They are not even going to do a driveby anymore.

Surveys instructed through a lender when applying for a mortgage:

Basic Survey ---> You will be lucky if you get a copy (it is for the lender, even though you are paying, to ensure the property is a good risk)

Homebuyers Survey ---> you will get a copy

Structural Survey ---> You will get a copy

If it is one of those free survey deals you will NOT get a copy most of the time.

William_H

Out of interest, aren't mortgage providers insured? They are in Canada where I bought my first house. If you put less than 20% down you have to pay for the provider's insurance on the loan, so there was no "valuation" survey necessary since the principal was covered. You still had to do your own structural survey, which normally cost around £200.

Alan_M_2

You are paying for the valuers expertise, but mostly you are paying for their professional indemnity insurance, which is thousands of Pounds per month. The when the crap hit's the fan the lender has someone to blame and claim against should they find the value of the property doesn't cover the loan. So in reality, the valuation is actually an insurance policy for the lender.

£300 buys me an hour and half of my solicitors time, do you think that's good value for money? If not, why not.

£300 buys me 3 hours of Labour at the Mercedes Dealership when my vehicles go into be serviced. Is that reasonable?

£300 buys me delivery of 20 tons of Granite counter tops from Felixstowe to Surrey. Is that good value?

Got the Blues? Not really, just trying to open your eyes to the real cost of things, not the Daily Mail perception of their cost.

William_H

Fair enough.

Generali

epz wrote: »

dont they need to provide you with any information they hold about you under the data protection act, i would guess the survey is your info and house so should be covered.

I think it's only personal information that directly pertains to you that you are entitled to see. I don't think that a house survey falls under this category although I am happy to be proved wrong.

MarkyMarkD

As others have pointed out, you do NOT pay a survey fee to the lender in order that they undertake a survey on your behalf.

As part of the initial setup of a mortgage, the lender requires you to pay them a fee which they happen to term a valuation fee (and which varies dependent on the value of your property). Whether they use that money to undertake a valuation or to spend on other administrative services is frankly irrelevant.

The idea that "you've paid for a survey so you're entitled to a copy" is rubbish. You've paid one of a number of up-front fees which are a condition of obtaining your mortgage and which don't entitle you to anything except getting that mortgage.

End of story.

Lenders which do not provide copies of basic valuations (and they are many) all notify borrowers up-front that this is the case and suggest that borrowers may wish to obtain a survey.

Borrowers can NEVER rely on a survey, for litigation purposes, unless it is undertaken on their behalf - a basic lenders' valuation is therefore no use for this purpose at all even if a copy is provided.

Alan_M_2

MarkyMarkD wrote: »

As others have pointed out, you do NOT pay a survey fee to the lender in order that they undertake a survey on your behalf.

As part of the initial setup of a mortgage, the lender requires you to pay them a fee which they happen to term a valuation fee (and which varies dependent on the value of your property). Whether they use that money to undertake a valuation or to spend on other administrative services is frankly irrelevant.

The idea that "you've paid for a survey so you're entitled to a copy" is rubbish. You've paid one of a number of up-front fees which are a condition of obtaining your mortgage and which don't entitle you to anything except getting that mortgage.

End of story.

This I disagree with, charging a fee for a service that wasn't undertaken is very sticky legally, tantamount to obtaining money by deception.

By agreeing to pay for a valuation or survey you are paying for an independent (even this is subjective) opinion of the value/condition of the property, you are quite within your rights to request a copy of the results of this investigation for which you paid.

The lender is merely passing on the cost of this external service. To suggest it's an in house service or even irrelevant it clearly wrong not only morally but I would suggest legally also.